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View Poll Results: Philly vs Bos
Philadelphia 221 50.92%
Boston 213 49.08%
Voters: 434. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 04-27-2017, 01:34 PM
 
8,638 posts, read 8,771,906 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILiveInAmerica View Post
Philadelphia was the largest and most important city during the Revolutionary period. It's pretty well known.

Boston was second.

American philosophy and democracy as we know it, was created in Philadelphia. There's no getting around it. It's not up for debate.

We live in a post-fact world now I understand, but that's the reality.

Paul Revere was not waving a Betsy Ross flag around to my knowledge.

Because Philadelphia hadn't put a name and cause to the Revolution yet. Its an isolated incident without that.
On May 2nd 1776, prior to the DoI France and Spain promised $1 million dollars in arms and munitions, the idea that until July 4th nobody was fighting for independence and it was a couple of rabble rousers is a "post fact world" statement.
March 17th 1776 the Massachusetts Provincial government became the de-facto government of MA with the British control
On July 3rd 1775 a Virginian took control of the Continental Army (well prior to July 4th, 1776)
May 10th 1775, first battle outside of Massachusetts (Ticonderoga)
April 23rd the Provincial Government of Massachusetts raised a militia against the British (Lexington+Concord were not government endorsed)
So as early as a year before the DoI the Revolution was already an organized independence movement. Philly broadcasted it to the world, but did not invent it.
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Old 04-27-2017, 01:46 PM
 
2,297 posts, read 1,063,159 times
Reputation: 1615
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILiveInAmerica View Post
Philadelphia was the largest and most important city during the Revolutionary period. It's pretty well known.

Boston was second.

American philosophy and democracy as we know it, was created in Philadelphia. There's no getting around it. It's not up for debate.

We live in a post-fact world now I understand, but that's the reality.

Paul Revere was not waving a Betsy Ross flag around to my knowledge.

Because Philadelphia hadn't put a name and cause to the Revolution yet. Its an isolated incident without that.
This back and forth Revolutionary period important city is more then not.... irreverent today for all but aspects of tourism related to it. Its basically a toss-up.

I'm not sure I'd say Philly is a better Architectural city in housing. Outside of Colonial era neighborhoods left. Much of Philly is basic (more plain then not) row-homes. Western and farther Northern areas get more diverse to even suburban.

Boston chose to leave row-homes as standard by the 20th century. Philly did not. Boston's Triple-Decker's became a form it embraced. I personally prefer them over rows. But few call them Architecturally relevant? Though they provided a means to own a home by having rentals too. Philly chose basic rolls cheap enough that a basic Mill worker could own. But not much in the true CRAFTSMAN workmanship past eras provided.

But Philly does have great older businesses architecture that luckily survived to be restored. As for more modern architecture? Probably Philly. But not housing I still say.

Dwelling on a couple centuries ago importance of these cities? Is merely a portion of these cites relevance today. I'd say a TIE in that area...

On relevance for highly educated population %'s? Of course it goes to Boston. Boston for decades was known as University city. That still is in place. You can say between Harvard and Yale? One goes to NYC? It still has BOTH relevant to Boston too and still.

Harvard is considerably larger in graduates and #2 in the world nearest Boston to Yale #15 in nearby Connecticut. Both in New England region Boston is Head city of.

https://www.topuniversities.com/stud...arvard-or-yale
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:03 PM
 
105 posts, read 49,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by btownboss4 View Post
On May 2nd 1776, prior to the DoI France and Spain promised $1 million dollars in arms and munitions, the idea that until July 4th nobody was fighting for independence and it was a couple of rabble rousers is a "post fact world" statement.
March 17th 1776 the Massachusetts Provincial government became the de-facto government of MA with the British control
On July 3rd 1775 a Virginian took control of the Continental Army (well prior to July 4th, 1776)
May 10th 1775, first battle outside of Massachusetts (Ticonderoga)
April 23rd the Provincial Government of Massachusetts raised a militia against the British (Lexington+Concord were not government endorsed)
So as early as a year before the DoI the Revolution was already an organized independence movement. Philly broadcasted it to the world, but did not invent it.
You're aware the first and second Contintenal Congress (in Philly) was before this, right?

The brains of the operation was well into effect.

I don't understand the confusion. The creation of our current democracy was debated and formed in Philadelphia. It wasn't a random meeting place. It was the largest colonial city and the cultural center.

I repeat, Paul Revere was not waving an American flag. There was no unified cause yet.

The end.

Last edited by ILiveInAmerica; 04-27-2017 at 03:16 PM..
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Old 04-27-2017, 03:09 PM
 
105 posts, read 49,707 times
Reputation: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
This back and forth Revolutionary period important city is more then not.... irreverent today for all but aspects of tourism related to it. Its basically a toss-up.

I'm not sure I'd say Philly is a better Architectural city in housing. Outside of Colonial era neighborhoods left. Much of Philly is basic (more plain then not) row-homes. Western and farther Northern areas get more diverse to even suburban.

Boston chose to leave row-homes as standard by the 20th century. Philly did not. Boston's Triple-Decker's became a form it embraced. I personally prefer them over rows. But few call them Architecturally relevant? Though they provided a means to own a home by having rentals too. Philly chose basic rolls cheap enough that a basic Mill worker could own. But not much in the true CRAFTSMAN workmanship past eras provided.

But Philly does have great older businesses architecture that luckily survived to be restored. As for more modern architecture? Probably Philly. But not housing I still say.

Dwelling on a couple centuries ago importance of these cities? Is merely a portion of these cites relevance today. I'd say a TIE in that area...

On relevance for highly educated population %'s? Of course it goes to Boston. Boston for decades was known as University city. That still is in place. You can say between Harvard and Yale? One goes to NYC? It still has BOTH relevant to Boston too and still.

Harvard is considerably larger in graduates and #2 in the world nearest Boston to Yale #15 in nearby Connecticut. Both in New England region Boston is Head city of.

https://www.topuniversities.com/stud...arvard-or-yale
Not sure what architecture has to do with it but since you mentioned it, Philadelphia built rowhomes out of necessity. It's 3x the size of Boston. You're ignoring much of the Victorian sections of Philadelphia, which is much larger than colonial era and IMO much more appealing than the Boston triple decker.

I also have no idea why you brought up Yale. ?????

Princeton is probably a better example, which is actually ranked #1 overall.
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Old 04-27-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
4,265 posts, read 7,187,813 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePa View Post
I'm not sure I'd say Philly is a better Architectural city in housing. Outside of Colonial era neighborhoods left. Much of Philly is basic (more plain then not) row-homes. Western and farther Northern areas get more diverse to even suburban.

Boston chose to leave row-homes as standard by the 20th century. Philly did not. Boston's Triple-Decker's became a form it embraced. I personally prefer them over rows. But few call them Architecturally relevant? Though they provided a means to own a home by having rentals too. Philly chose basic rolls cheap enough that a basic Mill worker could own. But not much in the true CRAFTSMAN workmanship past eras provided.

But Philly does have great older businesses architecture that luckily survived to be restored. As for more modern architecture? Probably Philly. But not housing I still say.
I know that you tend to very heavily focus on the lens of architecture, but even the most "basic" of Philly rowhomes are well-crafted, full masonry homes. By today's construction standards, even the "mill worker" housing would be considered luxurious, with hand-laid brick and solid hardwoods throughout with an often surprising amount of interior architectural flourishes. Take a look any literally historic home listing in any neighborhood in Philly, and you'll understand what I'm talking about,.

Also, your constant point of "plain" rows in Philly is highly debatable, as the city is chock full of literally hundreds of rowhouse styles, ranging from super-ornate, to fairly modest, as opposed to the picture you paint of the city only being home to one or two styles that are repeated for miles and miles. Even the more modest rowhomes, IMO, have a beautiful classic look that very clearly evokes the Federalist style.

New England is also known for clapboard, wood-based architecture, as opposed to the heavily masonry mid-Atlantic. Many, if not most, people tend to prefer the later over the former exactly for the reason that masonry buildings are very sturdy and can last forever, if maintained properly.
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Old 04-27-2017, 05:05 PM
Status: "Thanks a lot MFBE" (set 1 day ago)
 
Location: Land of the Tonkawa and Kiowa
3,902 posts, read 1,471,959 times
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Benjamin Franklin voted for Philly (check out his autobiography). Sorry, I'm back in the 18th century...
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Old 04-27-2017, 06:46 PM
 
621 posts, read 362,943 times
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Boston has an asston. The Revolution started in BOSTON in 1665 when, with the help of Benjamin Edes, a printer, and John Gill, Ebenezer McIntosh organized 2,000 men and began terrorizing the British tax officers.... The terror lasted through to the early winter when the British sent troops.

Philadelphia has Society Hill, etc.... it's alright (i guess)

Boston long before the War broke out.... the site of the Liberty Tree came into focus. ....Thanks to America's Terror Leader, my great, great, great, great, great granddaddy....

In Boston in early summer of 1765 a group of shopkeepers and artisans who called themselves The Loyal Nine, began preparing for agitation against the Stamp Act. As that group grew, it came to be known as the Sons of Liberty. And grow it did! These were not the leading men of Boston, but rather workers and tradesmen. It was unseemly that they would be so agitated by a parliamentary act. Though their ranks did not include Samuel and John Adams, the fact may have been a result of a mutually beneficial agreement. The Adams' and other radical members of the legislature were daily in the public eye; they could not afford to be too closely associated with violence, neither could the secretive Sons of Liberty afford much public exposure. However, amongst the members were two men who could generate much public sentiment about the Act. Benjamin Edes, a printer, and John Gill of the Boston Gazette produced a steady stream of news and opinion. Within a very short time a group of some two thousand men had been organized under Ebenezer McIntosh, a South Boston shoemaker.

The first widely known acts of the Sons took place on August 14, 1765, when an effigy of Andrew Oliver (who was to be commissioned Distributor of Stamps for Massachusetts) was found hanging in a tree on Newbury street, along with a large boot with a devil climbing out of it. The boot was a play on the name of the Earl of Bute and the whole display was intended to establish an evil connection between Oliver and the Stamp Act. The sheriffs were told to remove the display but protested in fear of their lives, for a large crowd had formed at the scene. Before the evening a mob burned Oliver's property on Kilby street, then moved on to his house. There they beheaded the effigy and stoned the house as its occupants looked out in horror. They then moved to nearby Fort Hill were they built a large fire and burned what was left of the effigy. Most of the crowd dissipated at that point, however McIntosh and crew, then under cover of darkness, ransacked Oliver's abandoned home until midnight. On that evening it became very clear who ruled Boston. The British Militia, the Sheriffs and Justices, kept a low profile. No one dared respond to such violent force.

By the end of that year the Sons of Liberty existed in every colony. Their most popular objective was to force Stamp Distributors throughout the colonies to resign. The groups also applied pressure to any Merchants who did not comply with the non-importation associations. Wherever these groups existed they were either directed in secret by leading men in the community or actually lead by them. However, there were opportunists everywhere, too, who would use the name Sons of Liberty to carry out acts of revenge and other violence not related to the cause. For example, in South Carolina a group of sailors, calling themselves The Sons of Liberty, formed a mob to coerce money from people on the streets*. Such behavior could certainly undermine the cause, so the Sons spent a great deal of time policing themselves and pretenders. This was the origin on names such as "True Sons," and "True-born Sons" of Liberty.

The success of these movements in undermining the Stamp Act cannot be attributed to violence alone. Their most effective work was performed in newsprint. A great many of the Sons were printers and publishers themselves and even those who were not, were sympathetic to the cause. It was they who would pay the most in duties, after all. Nearly every newspaper in the colonies carried daily reports of the activities of the Sons. Accounts of the most dramatic escapades spread throughout the colonies. In one most remarkable incident, an account of the Virginia Stamp Act Resolutions was printed far and wide. It is not certain how many of the editors who reprinted it were aware of the status of the resolutions, but seven were printed, while only five actually passed (the fifth was in fact rescinded the day after adoption.) The ultimate effect of such propaganda was to embolden both citizens and Legislatures in every colony. When the Stamp Act became effective on the 1st of November, 1765, nearly all of these papers went right on publishing without the required Stamp.

In the early months of 1766 there was such chaos that many of the royal governors had gone into hiding. The Sheriffs and Militia that they might have counted on to keep the peace were mostly members of the Sons of Liberty. Governors were afraid to unlock the weapons stores. Few royal troops were available and they were vastly outnumbered in any case. The Sons of Liberty had displaced the royal government in nearly every colony. The Stamp Act Congress had concluded its business, but there was little hope that its petition to Gr. Britain would be heard. Correspondence between the various groups began, toward the mutual support and defense of the cause. It was expected that eventually British troops would land and attempt to reassert control. So it was that the first efforts to unite the colonies were not undertaken by their respective legislatures, but by these independent radical groups. The various Sons throughout the colonies began to correspond and develop a larger organization.
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Old 04-27-2017, 08:17 PM
 
105 posts, read 49,707 times
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Boston people, you're trying too hard.

Take a visit to the Museum of the American Revolution sometime.

In Philadelphia for a reason.

It's open.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:40 AM
 
Location: Boston, MA
10,891 posts, read 7,710,202 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILiveInAmerica View Post
Philadelphia was the largest and most important city during the Revolutionary period. It's pretty well known.

Boston was second.

American philosophy and democracy as we know it, was created in Philadelphia. There's no getting around it. It's not up for debate.

We live in a post-fact world now I understand, but that's the reality.

Paul Revere was not waving a Betsy Ross flag around to my knowledge.

Because Philadelphia hadn't put a name and cause to the Revolution yet. Its an isolated incident without that.
Isolated incident?!?!?!?

Two major land battles (Lexington/Concord and Bunker Hill) along with a siege is not an isolated incident, it's a full bloody revolution. Please educate yourself before you type.

Boston dragged the nation into independence in some cases kicking and screaming. Philly's contribution? Geographical centrality which dictated where the colonies would meet to conduct its business.

Read up!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle...on_and_Concord
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Boston
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bunker_Hill

It just as easily could have been Baltimore that was chosen for the location of the Continental Congress Which btw was also formed in reaction to what was happening in..you guessed it, Boston.

Read the beginning of the second paragraph in the following link:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continental_Congress

As far as American Independence goes, Boston literally made Philly.
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Old 04-28-2017, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
423 posts, read 295,380 times
Reputation: 396
Hands down love Boston. Really fun and amazing city to be in. The city has a lot of history, culture, beautiful neighborhoods, clean, good public transport, education, low crime, great food, and near the water. Downside would probably be climate but that's due to geography not the city itself. It's also a very unique city.
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