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My Midwestern experience, until a few days from now, has been limited to Kansas City and Indianapolis. Those two cities alone prove that the Midwest, like other regions, is diverse, but being that my experience is limited to those cities, I have a hard time likening Western New York to them. Western New York is not at all like Indiana, Missouri, or those two cities...
So closer to the truth is what others have already intimated, which is that there is a "Great Lakes" corridor and culture that extends into Western New York and stops somewhere west of Syracuse. Just like the Mid-Atlantic is a subregion that stretches both Northeast and Southeast America, and most places within that region exemplify characteristics of both regions to some extent; just like Appalachia stretches across the North and South (and also reaches into the extreme southern reaches of WNY); so too is the Great Lakes a subregion where there are many shared characteristics--hence, many people have said Cleveland feels like an East Coast city, people saying Buffalo feels like the Midwest--and geographically reaches into both the Midwest and Northeast...
I hate that so many people want to put cities or states into one box. People can walk and chew gum at the same time...
So Buffalo probably does have a Midwestern-ish feel, if your definition of the Midwest is really the Great Lakes. And cities like Chicago and Cleveland that have been said by some to have an East Coast feel are just really in that Great Lakes definition. Haven't been to Chicago, won't be in Cleveland for a few days, but I think those cities only feel "East Coast" if the definition is Buffalo-ish; most people seem to agree that Chi/Cleve are truly more dissimilar than similar to NY, Boston, Philly...
But even of Buffalo has a Great Lakes Midwestern feel, I can tell you from experience it isn't truly Midwestern. Missouri is the heartland, Indiana is typical Midwest, those states are so not alike Buffalo/WNY that you really have to reach to draw a comparison. Buffalo isn't the Midwest....
I live in Cleveland and visit Pittsburgh regularly. Between these two, its a toss up. They actually complement each other to some degree (rugged hills vs lakeshore). Museums, public transportation, universities, health care facilities, R+D facilities, job opportunities, parkland, gentrification, suburban sprawl. Put all of this on a chart over time and all you will see is a bunch of overlapping noisy lines. For god's sake, don't start a C vs. P thread, they only end in misery.
Suggest to visit both.
I don't know if I would go that far. There are some similarities, but WNY is still Northeastern and people still identify as such. Those similarities are more in line with Great Lakes areas in the Midwest versus the region as a whole, which also varies.
Yeah I can see why with places close to the great lakes like Buffalo or Erie PA, since the Midwest does have a huge portion which is aligned along the great lakes, and they share a culture and accents.
But the rest of the interior northeast it doesn't make sense to me at all, and I don't know anyone from there who even remotely identifes as midwestern. A similar analogy would be someone from a place like Harrisburg, PA identifying as Southern because the mason dixon line is not far away- doesn't make any sense.
Yeah I can see why with places close to the great lakes like Buffalo or Erie PA, since the Midwest does have a huge portion which is aligned along the great lakes, and they share a culture and accents.
But the rest of the interior northeast it doesn't make sense to me at all, and I don't know anyone from there who even remotely identifes as midwestern. A similar analogy would be someone from a place like Harrisburg, PA identifying as Southern because the mason dixon line is not far away- doesn't make any sense.
Pittsburgh is at the Eastern end of the Ohio River which for 200 years was one of the most important transportation routes in the country, while the mountains cut it of from
The east coast proper.
Pittsburgh is at the Eastern end of the Ohio River which for 200 years was one of the most important transportation routes in the country, while the mountains cut it of from
The east coast proper.
Yes, and ? So that means original city of Pittsburgh (downtown and all parts east of the Ohio river) is northeastern then, and the small portion to the north of that river is midwestern, and the small portion to the south is southern?? Is St. Louis southern because of the Mississipi River? Is Minneapolis?
Its still a part of the northeast reagardless of whether its considered east coast. Of course you realize there are lots of highways , roads and train tracks that go across those mountains. Its not exactly a struggle. Its not like they are the Rockies. By that logic, upstate NY and Vermont and New Hampshire would not be part of the northeast either, because of the mountains. It's ludicrous. Then the northeast would be pretty much just the I95 corridor down to Wilmington, and not much else.
People, stop getting your undies in a bundle. Many of the "dividing" lines between US regions are arbitrary. WE MADE THESE LINES UP. The US is one country, with four corners, and everything in between those corners. There is good, bad, pretty, and ugly in every single one of those regions. It always amazes me, that people living between these made-up "dividing lines" feel as though they are superior, to those living between other made up "dividing lines." I've lived between several areas of these arbitrary lines, and people are people, no matter where they live. The number of people that feel they're superior because they live nearer an arbitrarily chosen line, is laughable. There's so much more to life.
People, stop getting your undies in a bundle. Many of the "dividing" lines between US regions are arbitrary. WE MADE THESE LINES UP. The US is one country, with four corners, and everything in between those corners. There is good, bad, pretty, and ugly in every single one of those regions. It always amazes me, that people living between these made-up "dividing lines" feel as though they are superior, to those living between other made up "dividing lines." I've lived between several areas of these arbitrary lines, and people are people, no matter where they live. The number of people that feel they're superior because they live nearer an arbitrarily chosen line, is laughable. There's so much more to life.
I pretty much agree, and of course there are all kinds of cultures and subcultures all over the place. It's hard to understand why some people cannot accept the generally accepted basic regional divides used by the census though, and have to try to create their own versions. It makes discussions on here really annoying.
Yes, and ? So that means original city of Pittsburgh (downtown and all parts east of the Ohio river) is northeastern then, and the small portion to the north of that river is midwestern, and the small portion to the south is southern?? Is St. Louis southern because of the Mississipi River? Is Minneapolis?
Its still a part of the northeast reagardless of whether its considered east coast. Of course you realize there are lots of highways , roads and train tracks that go across those mountains. Its not exactly a struggle. Its not like they are the Rockies. By that logic, upstate NY and Vermont and New Hampshire would not be part of the northeast either, because of the mountains. It's ludicrous. Then the northeast would be pretty much just the I95 corridor down to Wilmington, and not much else.
The Appalachians are a significant cultural border. While Cities just over the Mountains like Rochester, Buffalo, and Cincy were the largely settled in the first wave of Western Expansion post independence, Boston, New York, Concord, Springfield and such were nearly 200 years older. While Western cities are generally only 50-70 years younger than those first wave cities. History has a large impact on eventual culture. The stark contrast over the crest of the Appalachians is very noticeable, from Architecture and food to accents and sports. (particularly seen in Football vs Basketball relative popularity)
The Appalachians are a significant cultural border. While Cities just over the Mountains like Rochester, Buffalo, and Cincy were the largely settled in the first wave of Western Expansion post independence, Boston, New York, Concord, Springfield and such were nearly 200 years older. While Western cities are generally only 50-70 years younger than those first wave cities. History has a large impact on eventual culture. The stark contrast over the crest of the Appalachians is very noticeable, from Architecture and food to accents and sports. (particularly seen in Football vs Basketball relative popularity)
Sports interest varies between these 3 cities/areas. In Buffalo, Hockey is popular at pretty much all levels similar to what you see in New England. Lacrosse is also more popular there versus the other 2 areas. Football is big in all 3, but Cleveland and Pittsburgh are a little more so than Buffalo in terms of all levels. Basketball is pretty popular in all 3, but I'd say that it varies depending upon the level.
Also, keep in mind that Pittsburgh is actually the oldest of the 3 and is relatively older than most American cities.
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Is St. Louis southern because of the Mississipi River? Is Minneapolis?
