Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IMHO the single worst thing about downtown Cleveland are all the surface parking lots everywhere. I know Pittsburgh is an outlier for a rust belt city, but there's only a handful of parking lots left in downtown, and it shrinks by 1-2 lots every year due to infill.
I actually like those parking lots, but acknowledge how unique they are next to some of the largest buildings in the U.S. I can park next to Public Square all day for $10 on weekends. Depending upon how far you're willing to walk (but no more than 10-15 minutes), you can get $5-10 parking on Prospect Ave. for Indians games in not only parking lots, but garages. Parking for PlayhouseSquare is $5-10 on Prospect Ave. for walks of less than five minutes to the doors of the Palace Connor Theatre. PlayhouseSquare theaters have a large attached garage used by perhaps a majority of guests, and the cost there is less than $15, perhaps $10 for subscribers (I don't remember; in good weather, I use my subscription parking tickets to park in the Hanna garage across from the Connor Palace theater for the shorter walk and faster ingress and egress; I've never seen the public price at that very nice garage higher than $10). Parking is very cheap in downtown Cleveland for those who know the city.
Within a decade or two, those parking lots likely will be gone, especially the ones immediately to the west of Public Square, all replaced by major developments. Cleveland is rapidly absorbing all empty space downtown, especially due to office-to-residential conversions of old office buildings and retail space.
The parking lots next to Public Square resulted when buildings were demolished in preparation for another major skyscraper. A merger eliminated the demand for the building and the lots have sat empty for decades. Several development projects for those lots are now under active discussion. With Cleveland's new emphasis on public spaces, those buildings likely will be much more conducive to a livable downtown than the original project(s) planned for that important location.
Those lots likely were important for the development of the Warehouse District, and I wonder what will happen to that entertainment district when that cheap parking is no longer present.
I actually like those parking lots, but acknowledge how unique they are next to some of the largest buildings in the U.S. I can park next to Public Square all day for $10 on weekends. Depending upon how far you're willing to walk (but no more than 10-15 minutes), you can get $5-10 parking on Prospect Ave. for Indians games in not only parking lots, but garages. Parking for PlayhouseSquare is $5-10 on Prospect Ave. for walks of less than five minutes to the doors of the Palace Connor Theatre. PlayhouseSquare theaters have a large attached garage used by perhaps a majority of guests, and the cost there is less than $15, perhaps $10 for subscribers (I don't remember; in good weather, I use my subscription parking tickets to park in the Hanna garage across from the Connor Palace theater for the shorter walk and faster ingress and egress; I've never seen the public price at that very nice garage higher than $10). Parking is very cheap in downtown Cleveland for those who know the city.
Within a decade or two, those parking lots likely will be gone, especially the ones immediately to the west of Public Square, all replaced by major developments. Cleveland is rapidly absorbing all empty space downtown, especially due to office-to-residential conversions of old office buildings and retail space.
The parking lots next to Public Square resulted when buildings were demolished in preparation for another major skyscraper. A merger eliminated the demand for the building and the lots have sat empty for decades. Several development projects for those lots are now under active discussion. With Cleveland's new emphasis on public spaces, those buildings likely will be much more conducive to a livable downtown than the original project(s) planned for that important location.
Those lots likely were important for the development of the Warehouse District, and I wonder what will happen to that entertainment district when that cheap parking is no longer present.
On the other hand, having those parking lots filled in means more residents and businesses to follow those residents as well as better use of and more emphasis on the mass transit options that Cleveland has. It's a bit off that Cleveland has the second best transit network in the Midwest, but has such low riderships and massive parking lots in its downtown.
A lot of what makes downtown Pittsburgh attractive and fun to explore is because you can go for quite a while without having to cross through large surface lots. Every block has something potentially interesting to come across. It seems like Cleveland hs great potential for something similar as the tracks curve around the perimeter of downtown such that nearly every part of downtown could eventually be within a fifteen minute walk of a station, but the question is if Cleveland is actually pushing towards that, and if so, how quickly is it doing so.
Last edited by OyCrumbler; 05-23-2017 at 09:50 AM..
I actually like those parking lots, but acknowledge how unique they are next to some of the largest buildings in the U.S. I can park next to Public Square all day for $10 on weekends. Depending upon how far you're willing to walk (but no more than 10-15 minutes), you can get $5-10 parking on Prospect Ave. for Indians games in not only parking lots, but garages. Parking for PlayhouseSquare is $5-10 on Prospect Ave. for walks of less than five minutes to the doors of the Palace Connor Theatre. PlayhouseSquare theaters have a large attached garage used by perhaps a majority of guests, and the cost there is less than $15, perhaps $10 for subscribers (I don't remember; in good weather, I use my subscription parking tickets to park in the Hanna garage across from the Connor Palace theater for the shorter walk and faster ingress and egress; I've never seen the public price at that very nice garage higher than $10). Parking is very cheap in downtown Cleveland for those who know the city.
Within a decade or two, those parking lots likely will be gone, especially the ones immediately to the west of Public Square, all replaced by major developments. Cleveland is rapidly absorbing all empty space downtown, especially due to office-to-residential conversions of old office buildings and retail space.
The parking lots next to Public Square resulted when buildings were demolished in preparation for another major skyscraper. A merger eliminated the demand for the building and the lots have sat empty for decades. Several development projects for those lots are now under active discussion. With Cleveland's new emphasis on public spaces, those buildings likely will be much more conducive to a livable downtown than the original project(s) planned for that important location.
Those lots likely were important for the development of the Warehouse District, and I wonder what will happen to that entertainment district when that cheap parking is no longer present.
I dunno. I think one of the most important things for a downtown is having a coherent walkable fabric, which means strictly limiting - hopefully eliminating entirely - surface parking. Pittsburgh developed along this route in part by accident. Because the state was unwilling to allow the city to set up a commuter tax like Philly, the city decided to tax suburban commuters by raising parking garage tax rates to the highest level in the country, along with restricting the ability of property owners to demolish additional buildings for surface lots. This didn't kill the downtown office market at all, and actually strengthened local transit usage because it's so much cheaper to take the bus or T into town than it is to drive and park (only around half of downtown commuters drive, the rest take transit or walk/bike). I've worked downtown for 12 years, and have basically never driven in (except a few times when I needed to get a flight out later in the day).
Regardless, in another 10-20 years self-driving cars will be perfected, meaning cars will go park themselves in some remote (and hopefully free) location when not in use. As a result, the need for downtown parking will essentially vanish, opening up all parking structures for redevelopment.
Is it accurate that Pittsburghers equate downtown Pittsburgh with only the Central Business District?
Historically this has probably been the typical definition since around 1950 (before then it was a larger CBD because Point State Park did not exist and was instead a developed part of downtown, and the Civic Arena and I-579 did not exist cutting off downtown from uptown and the Lower Hill District, it was much more cohesive back then, and a larger area was considered to be part of downtown).
Now I think this is changing again as the civic arena site will be developed (finally?) and the highway capped with a connective parklet to downtown. Also there is much more new development connecting downtown proper to the Strip and I think it's likely that a lot of people will begin to consider the Strip from 11th st up to 16th st as a part of downtown, if they don't already. Even more, the eastern portion of Station Sq. is finally being developed and this could have the effect of bringing the entire district into the downtown sphere, for example the apartments being developed will certainly appear on a search for "Downtown Pittsburgh apartments"
Historically this has probably been the typical definition since around 1950 (before then it was a larger CBD because Point State Park did not exist and was instead a developed part of downtown, and the Civic Arena and I-579 did not exist cutting off downtown from uptown and the Lower Hill District, it was much more cohesive back then, and a larger area was considered to be part of downtown).
I don't think the Point would have been considered part of Downtown back then. It was an industrial and working-class Irish neighborhood with little in the way of office space or retail. The Lower Hill was also very different from Downtown at this time - mostly 2-4 story rowhouses, small apartment buildings, and commercial storefronts, even directly adjacent to the Allegheny County Courthouse.
On the other hand, having those parking lots filled in means more residents and businesses to follow those residents as well as better use of and more emphasis on the mass transit options that Cleveland has. It's a bit off that Cleveland has the second best transit network in the Midwest, but has such low riderships and massive parking lots in its downtown.
A lot of what makes downtown Pittsburgh attractive and fun to explore is because you can go for quite a while without having to cross through large surface lots. Every block has something potentially interesting to come across. It seems like Cleveland hs great potential for something similar as the tracks curve around the perimeter of downtown such that nearly every part of downtown could eventually be within a fifteen minute walk of a station, but the question is if Cleveland is actually pushing towards that, and if so, how quickly is it doing so.
You're right, but I still will enjoy the cheap parking while it lasts.
Regardless, in another 10-20 years self-driving cars will be perfected, meaning cars will go park themselves in some remote (and hopefully free) location when not in use. As a result, the need for downtown parking will essentially vanish, opening up all parking structures for redevelopment.
Interesting point that I've never considered. E.g., you might take a bus to the contemplated new transit center in the Muny parking lot, or drive there in your personal car, then take an autonomous vehicle anywhere downtown, assuming the combined price is right. Perhaps it would kill the Waterfront Line.
I hate all that downtown Cleveland surface parking, too. But at least, in the areas of main interest, mainly the central spine of downtown along Euclid, there's not a ton of surface parking -- the biggest exception is Euclid around E. 7th and 8th, which was the site of an old Vaudeville-turned-movie-theatre: the Hippodrome which was demolished in the 70s. The other surface lot is a smaller one (compared to those in the Warehouse District). along Prospect between it and Huron east of E. 4th opposite The Q.
For these reasons, downtown Cleveland still seems pretty vibrant despite these ugly lots. And when you're focusing on all the cool old (and some new) architecture, the dense apartment/foodie district along East 4th, the foot traffic and, now, a vibrant central public park in the remodeled Public Square, one tends to pay less attention to the surface lots. The Flats and Warehouse District are somewhat separated by those huge lots west of the Square, but those 2 districts are so popular, again, I don't think a lot of people notice these parking lots.
I don't think the Point would have been considered part of Downtown back then. It was an industrial and working-class Irish neighborhood with little in the way of office space or retail. The Lower Hill was also very different from Downtown at this time - mostly 2-4 story rowhouses, small apartment buildings, and commercial storefronts, even directly adjacent to the Allegheny County Courthouse.
Yep. My history professor once commented that the Point used to be called Little Ireland. Not sure how accurate that is but I found it interesting nonetheless.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
