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I ended my post with "read your history books" because I could not believe someone would not know about the progressive nature and history of New York city. You can say many things about New York but you can't really call it conservative in any aspect.
All the Europeans I spoke to were to some point fascinated with New York because of the movies and the whole New York story, being the largest city in the US, full of skyscrapers, Empire State and other historical buildings. Like it or not, New York is one of the primary tourist destinations in the US with Times Square being actually the most visited location and two New York's museums being the most visited musuems in the nation.
Also, keep in mind that founded by the Dutch New York has for centuries been the destination port for most European immigrants and the legend of big city in the New World promised land city was born as well.
Annie may not like New York but to most Europeans New York and its impressive skyline is the representation of the US, it's power and money.
We all know how far from the truth it is but Europeans do not think about farmlands or Great Lakes when they think about America, they think about New York, Broadway and Fifth Avenue.
She didn't say anything about not liking New York. And I agree with her about how not all Europeans see NYC as the primary US destination. I worked with a film program from France that had internships in NYC, and from the very beginning, most of the interns were rearing to depart for LA or to take roadtrips through the countryside (which a few of them actually did, and ended up seeing far more of the US than probably most Americans have).
She didn't say anything about not liking New York. And I agree with her about how not all Europeans see NYC as the primary US destination. I worked with a film program from France that had internships in NYC, and from the very beginning, most of the interns were rearing to depart for LA or to take roadtrips through the countryside (which a few of them actually did, and ended up seeing far more of the US than probably most Americans have).
Oy,
1. She did not say but I suspect that from her reaction and discrepancy between my experience and what she said.
2.. Of course an European participating in a film program would rather spend time in LA/Hollywood than in NYC. Only interested Americans know that NYU gave the world more Academy Awards laureates than any other school in the nation, NYC is the US capital of independent film making and the city offers some of the best film making summer courses in the world.
I believe some Europeans would like to see the "real America" but for most "real America" is as exciting as the countryside seen from the highway to the rest of us.
Remember, its not the Grand Canyon but the Times Square that is the most visited tourist attraction in America. New York is the only city with three out of 25 most visited tourist attractions, and notably two of them are museums. No other museum anywhere else in the US made the list. Interesting as it shows what is New York's main tourist pull...
Yes. From my experiences Europeans do not care much about Phoenix or Chicago but they have seen New York in the movies so many times (just think of the number of movies depicting New York) that it became a symbol of America for many. Not farms of Wisconsin or shopping malls of Arkansas but Manhattan' skyscrapers are for many what America is all about. When I talk about respect I meant that in a way that New York is the only city that can challenge Europe intellectually or artistically. There is of course Hollywood but not much to see there besides movie studios while in New York you can experience Broadway or galleires of SoHo yourself. Statistically no other city in the US gets more international visitors than New York and Times Square is the most popular tourist attraction in the entire US so my point is not so hard to prove.
Yes, New York gets the most international visitors and has the most popular tourist attraction, because it is our largest and most famous city. However, I doubt that Europeans only come to America wanting to visit New York.
Pretend you were going to a European country. I will use France as an example. While of course everyone wants to see and experience Paris (like New York), I would also want to see Normandy, the Loire Valley, Marseilles, Nice, Provence, the Alps, and so many other things. I would assume that similarly, Europeans coming here want to see more than just New York and Hollywood, and may even want to see other places in this country more than those.
And to get back to the original topic of this thread, I do not think that New York is the center of the world. To believe so is arrogant and disregards 98% of the rest of the world as second-rate.
She had experiences that were different from yours--how does that equate to disliking NYC? I live in NYC, and I feel like I love being here, but my experiences are also closer to hers (and I'd extend this to not just Europe, but also East Asia) than yours. NYC may be the most visited city, but certainly the state of California (unfair as this comparison may be) seems to be a bigger draw.
NYC is progressive in a lot of ways (it has to be because of its demographics and constant waves of immigration), but there are a lot of ways in which it is far from progressive (though definitely on the forefront for the US). If you're going to talk about the history books though, NYC's definitely been an interesting player in a lot of things.
As for the original topic, I think this whole thing bifurcated and then merged, causing a lot of confusion. Most of the people who argued that NYC isn't the center of the world are not saying that NYC isn't one of the most important cities or perhaps even the most important city in the world. What they (and I) are saying is that no city deserves the title of "center of the world" because the world is firmly polycentric with many strong regional hubs, and some of them within NYC's ballpark which precludes NYC, or any city, from being the center. Until my wehrmacht unites us all.
Yes, New York gets the most international visitors and has the most popular tourist attraction, because it is our largest and most famous city. However, I doubt that Europeans only come to America wanting to visit New York.
I never said that European only want to see New York City. I only said that from my conversations with European, NYC is the most appealing city in the US. Of course many Euroepans will see other cities and Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, Yellowstone etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem3456
And to get back to the original topic of this thread, I do not think that New York is the center of the world. To believe so is arrogant and disregards 98% of the rest of the world as second-rate.
Are you saying that calling DC the capital of the US is disrepectful to all the other cities?
I never said that European only want to see New York City. I only said that from my conversations with European, NYC is the most appealing city in the US. Of course many Euroepans will see other cities and Grand Canyon, Niagara Falls, Yellowstone etc.
Are you saying that calling DC the capital of the US is disrepectful to all the other cities?
Perhaps New York is the most appealing to outsiders. But that does not make it the center of the world, which is what this thread is debating.
And I think you are being sarcastic about DC, but no, its not disrespectful at all. Countries need capitals, and just because a city is not a capital doesn't mean that it is less important.
[quote=OyCrumbler;9719474]She had experiences that were different from yours--how does that equate to disliking NYC? I live in NYC, and I feel like I love being here, but my experiences are also closer to hers (and I'd extend this to not just Europe, but also East Asia) than yours. NYC may be the most visited city, but certainly the state of California (unfair as this comparison may be) seems to be a bigger draw.
I do not know about that. Out of top 25 most popular tourist attractions in the US, three, including number one is in New York.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
NYC is progressive in a lot of ways (it has to be because of its demographics and constant waves of immigration), but there are a lot of ways in which it is far from progressive (though definitely on the forefront for the US). If you're going to talk about the history books though, NYC's definitely been an interesting player in a lot of things.
Then again New York City has always been the liberal, decadent, ungodly and "un-American" city we all admire. Ergo it feels very different not only than most of the country but most of the New York state as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OyCrumbler
As for the original topic, I think this whole thing bifurcated and then merged, causing a lot of confusion. Most of the people who argued that NYC isn't the center of the world are not saying that NYC isn't one of the most important cities or perhaps even the most important city in the world. What they (and I) are saying is that no city deserves the title of "center of the world" because the world is firmly polycentric with many strong regional hubs, and some of them within NYC's ballpark which precludes NYC, or any city, from being the center. Until my wehrmacht unites us all.
Vorsprung durch Technik?
Of course no single city can calim to be the center of the world, however there are few cities in the world that could compete for this title and in my opinion New York is an extremely strong contenter. Unfortunately New York standing in the world is tied to the US standing in the world and it is not what is was even 50 years ago. During cold war it was very simple to say who is the leader of the free world. Not anymore.
Perhaps New York is the most appealing to outsiders. But that does not make it the center of the world, which is what this thread is debating.
Of course not. What makes it the center of the world is the fact that it host United Nations and Wall Street. No other city has so much power within city limits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dem3456
And I think you are being sarcastic about DC, but no, its not disrespectful at all. Countries need capitals, and just because a city is not a capital doesn't mean that it is less important.
The same with calling a city the center of the world: it does not make all other cities less important.
She had experiences that were different from yours--how does that equate to disliking NYC? I live in NYC, and I feel like I love being here, but my experiences are also closer to hers (and I'd extend this to not just Europe, but also East Asia) than yours. NYC may be the most visited city, but certainly the state of California (unfair as this comparison may be) seems to be a bigger draw.
I do not know about that. Out of top 25 most popular tourist attractions in the US, three, including number one is in New York.
Then again New York City has always been the liberal, decadent, ungodly and "un-American" city we all admire. Ergo it feels very different not only than most of the country but most of the New York state as well.
Vorsprung durch Technik?
Of course no single city can calim to be the center of the world, however there are few cities in the world that could compete for this title and in my opinion New York is an extremely strong contenter. Unfortunately New York standing in the world is tied to the US standing in the world and it is not what is was even 50 years ago. During cold war it was very simple to say who is the leader of the free world. Not anymore.
Those top three being in the same city also mean that many of the visitors who saw one will probably also have seen all three. For California, where the Bay Area and Los Angeles (whose charms are much more spread out) are both strong tourist magnets and San Diego, Napa Valley, and much of the wilderness found throughout the state (Yosemite, Tahoe, Big Sur, etc.) are also big contenders, most tourists are going to visit much more scattered attractions.
I agree NYC is quite different and unique--it's a big draw for a lot of tourists, but it's also something that a lot of Europeans (it's mostly French, British, and Irish that I've gotten to know though, so I'm biased towards people from these countries) are aware of and why so many visit elsewhere for what they might feel is a more "authentic" America (a bit bizarre to me).
And I think we're in agreement on both NYC being one of focal points of the world, but in a world where there is no true center. I think you'll find most of the people who argued against NYC being the center (especially earlier on in the topic) are on that same side.
Seeing how the majority of TV news programs seem to be based out of NYC, one does get that impression. I'd like to see some of the networks base some of their news programs out of other places, such as Tenessee or Iowa to get a different perspective.
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