Indianapolis vs. Raleigh (ranking, school, market, state)

[murksiderock]

^^^ not true. Raleigh is far more urban than Indy, and it has that feel to it. Also, Raleigh is approaching a 4k per square mile density, which further seals that urbanity claim. It is the densest city in the Carolinas...

I do agree that this is the time to be in Raleigh. I used to live in Fayetteville, where the exact same transformation is taking place. Fayetteville's population nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, and it is moving away from the conservative, GI-Joe city its been historically to creating a multicultured identity for itself...

I think because Raleigh is relatively still young in its growth, it wont compare well with alot of cities. Indianapolis is NOT one of those cities. I've been there. The assumption has been been made that Indy is the core of its metro while Raleigh has to share shine with Durham. Anybody who's lived in NC will tell you just how little shine Durham gets, it hardly compares to Raleigh, and NC natives would confirm that. You would have to live there to realize that Durham (like Fayetteville) is in Raleigh's shadow, a la Oakland to San Fran, or Baltimore to DC, or St. Pete to Tampa. That being said, the Triangle is one metro just about the size of Indy's, if you ignore the Census Bureau's irrational division of the two. And once you understand this, you understand that Raleigh is THE anchor city of the region...

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by murksiderock

^^^ not true. Raleigh is far more urban than Indy, and it has that feel to it. Also, Raleigh is approaching a 4k per square mile density, which further seals that urbanity claim. It is the densest city in the Carolinas...

If you're using density as the SOLE qualifier for what's urban, then that's about as misguided as it gets--and even then, I'm not sure where this 4k/sq mile claim is coming from. The last stats have Raleigh at 2800k/sq mile. Sprawl can actually have some density to it. And while neither is all that urban, Indianapolis gets the nod from me because its core is more urban and developed.

I do agree that this is the time to be in Raleigh. I used to live in Fayetteville, where the exact same transformation is taking place. Fayetteville's population nearly doubled from 2000 to 2010, and it is moving away from the conservative, GI-Joe city its been historically to creating a multicultured identity for itself...

What sort of "transformation" is taking place in Fayetteville? The only reason it added 80K residents in the last decade is because it annexed 85% of Fort Bragg. When a city grows that much but the county its in only gained 16K residents, it's obvious there's not much true growth going on whatsoever. Fayetteville was and still is a big military town with very little else going on besides that.

I think because Raleigh is relatively still young in its growth, it wont compare well with alot of cities. Indianapolis is NOT one of those cities. I've been there. The assumption has been been made that Indy is the core of its metro while Raleigh has to share shine with Durham. Anybody who's lived in NC will tell you just how little shine Durham gets, it hardly compares to Raleigh, and NC natives would confirm that. You would have to live there to realize that Durham (like Fayetteville) is in Raleigh's shadow, a la Oakland to San Fran, or Baltimore to DC, or St. Pete to Tampa. That being said, the Triangle is one metro just about the size of Indy's, if you ignore the Census Bureau's irrational division of the two. And once you understand this, you understand that Raleigh is THE anchor city of the region...

The issue, though, is that Raleigh is by itself is not entirely representative of its metro area because it is not the only principal city of its metro. While it's true that in terms of perception Raleigh outshines Durham, the fact is the city of Durham is about half the size of Raleigh. Indianapolis, nor similarly-sized metros, have that issue with another principal city within the metro area. Truth be told, Indianapolis is much more comparable to Charlotte, and it's quite clear that Charlotte as a city is a good bit ahead of Raleigh. It's the same deal with the city of Raleigh compared with the city of Indianapolis.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by 2Easy

From what I've seen the average person in Raleigh seems to live a better quality of life than in Indy. The average home is nicer for example. It's more of a high tech area with three major universities while Indiana's major universities are located in other places. Indy beats Raleigh on urbanity, but they are both lightweights in that area. I've only been to Indy twice for one week each time and I guess that my perception may have been tainted because I was expecting it to be a more urban midwest city, but it's more like southern sunbelt cities than its urban midwest neighbors. Only older.

Indiana's universities all have campuses in Indianapolis.
Ball State/Purdue and Indiana University at IUPUI
University of Indianapolis
Butler University
etc.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

Indiana's universities all have campuses in Indianapolis.
Ball State/Purdue and Indiana University at IUPUI
University of Indianapolis
Butler University
etc.

I don't know if I can think of a single larger American city that doesn't have a university in its limits or (at least) its metro. Raleigh houses the NC's largest university and the second largest is in nearby Chapel Hill. Duke is also in the Triangle in adjacent Durham.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl

I don't know if I can think of a single larger American city that doesn't have a university in its limits or (at least) its metro. Raleigh houses the NC's largest university and the second largest is in nearby Chapel Hill. Duke is also in the Triangle in adjacent Durham.

What are you getting at? Butler, UIndy, and IUPUI are all in the Indy city limits. Chapel Hill is as relevant to the discussion as Bloomington.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

The issue, though, is that Raleigh is by itself is not entirely representative of its metro area because it is not the only principal city of its metro. While it's true that in terms of perception Raleigh outshines Durham, the fact is the city of Durham is about half the size of Raleigh. Indianapolis, nor similarly-sized metros, have that issue with another principal city within the metro area. Truth be told, Indianapolis is much more comparable to Charlotte, and it's quite clear that Charlotte as a city is a good bit ahead of Raleigh. It's the same deal with the city of Raleigh compared with the city of Indianapolis.

The Triangle's future is probably more in line with Minneapolis/St Paul. That's probably the Midwest metro that has most in common with the Triangle. Both metros are the center of their respective state's government and university presence. Before people start jumping all over me regarding size, I realize that MSPL is much larger.

As a metro, Indianopolis lies between Charlotte (Metrolina) and Raleigh (Triangle). Charlotte is putting distance on Indy and the Triangle will probably catch and pass Indy within the decade.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by Toxic Toast

What are you getting at? Butler, UIndy, and IUPUI are all in the Indy city limits. Chapel Hill is as relevant to the discussion as Bloomington.

NC State is a mile west of DT Raleigh and is the largest university in both Carolinas. UNC and Duke being in the same CSA is just a bonus. Oh...and give me a call when Bloomington is part of the same CSA as Indianapolis.

[Broadrippleguy]

Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl

NC State is a mile west of DT Raleigh and is the largest university in both Carolinas. UNC and Duke being in the same CSA is just a bonus. Oh...and give me a call when Bloomington is part of the same CSA as Indianapolis.

i think it already is.
not sure the census changes the MSA/CSA all the time its stupid.

[Toxic Toast]

Originally Posted by rnc2mbfl

NC State is a mile west of DT Raleigh and is the largest university in both Carolinas. UNC and Duke being in the same CSA is just a bonus. Oh...and give me a call when Bloomington is part of the same CSA as Indianapolis.

If your argument for Raliegh has to pull in Chapel Hill and BOTH Carolinas, then Raleigh must have no legs of its own to stand on.

[rnc2mbfl]

Originally Posted by Broadrippleguy

i think it already is.
not sure the census changes the MSA/CSA all the time its stupid.

Table of United States primary census statistical areas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Bloomington is not part of Indy's CSA. I don't know that it has ever been part of the same MSA or CSA as Indy.
Chapel Hill and Raleigh were part of the same MSA until 2003. They are separated now but they are part of the same CSA.