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Old 09-09-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
887 posts, read 1,158,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by john_starks View Post
i can see that. if people move to nyc hoping for the Sex In The City, Seinfeld or Friends lifestyle (even with the funds), they're in for a big shock. that stuff's make-believe. it doesn't make it any less great of a city though.



good point. and for the record, i think King of Queens is more realistic although that's a pretty nice house they have
Actually, I was not expecting a Sex in the City lifestyle nor do I fantasize about most of the ish those women did. I'm not into fashion like that or drinking or status symbols. There is a medium between miserable and Sex in the City, and I was looking for that medium at the very least.

Who said I lived right in Manhattan? I lived in Brooklyn and in a New Jersey neighborhood about 15 minutes from Manhattan for quite a bit of time. I actually loved my place in Jersey (you could see the sunset overlooking a reservoir, so beautiful) more than any place I lived in in New York City and wish I could have stayed there. Still, the commuting made the experience difficult and just as costly. And yes, a city is overrated to some if they have to spend their paycheck on food, rent, and transportation when they can enjoy cultural offerings in other places without having to do all of that. And if only people with a certain amount of income can really enjoy it, that, to me is overrated.

You have your own definition of overrated, and that is simply not my definition. New York is trumped up as a great place to live (it is rated at a particularly high level) and for many people it is not (why it's overrated to me). The subject is clearly "cities you think are overated/underated" and for me it was.

Last edited by bizchick86; 09-09-2009 at 09:32 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:29 AM
 
Location: State College,PA
275 posts, read 363,792 times
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Quote:
And yes, a city is overrated to some if they have to spend their paycheck on food and rent when they can enjoy cultural offerings in other places without having to do all of that.
^Hmmm.. I still have to pay for food, rent, and transportation no matter where I live..

To repeat.. I had similar financial problems as a student in relatively cheaper Phoenix and Atlanta. That doesn't mean they are over-rated solely because I didn't have enough money to enjoy all their offerings. I suggest living in NYC as a professional making decent money and not as a student. It's easy to complain about NYC's expenses as a graduate student. You can't enjoy NYC if you can't afford the lifestyle there. That goes without saying and is true anywhere else as well.

The cultural offerings in the other US cities don't compare in quantity/quality, overall, to the cultural offerings in NYC. Living in NYC is not an experience that is easily substituted with just any other city!

Quote:
You have your own definition of overrated
The only definition of over-rated I accept is the one in the dictionary.

NYC has the rep for being very expensive, just like people say. So, no, it's not overrated in terms of expenses. NYC is what it says it is.

Last edited by Lancer78; 09-09-2009 at 09:47 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:42 AM
 
398 posts, read 587,507 times
Reputation: 104
Chicago is definitely overrated.

It's ranked the most miserable city in America, is the murder capital of the United States, and has suffered more population loss than any other city in America.

It's schools are ranked the worst in the U.S., it's govt. is ranked the most corrupt, taxes are the highest, and services are the worst. Oh, and the unemployment is one of the worst anywhere.

Why someone would actually pay money to live there is beyond me.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
887 posts, read 1,158,209 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78 View Post
^ To repeat.. I had similar financial problems as a student in relatively cheaper Phoenix and Atlanta. That doesn't mean they are over-rated. I suggest living there as a professional making decent money and not as a student. It's easy to complain about NYC's expenses as a graduate student. You can't enjoy NYC if you can't afford the lifestyle there. That goes without saying.

The cultural offerings in the other US cities don't compare in quantity/quality, overall, to the cultural offerings in NYC. Living in NYC is not an experience that is easily substituted with just any other city!
One having personal financial "problems" at one point in time is not the same as an entire city being expensive for most people. Since Atlanta is known as being a pretty affordable big city, and is highly rated as such, it would be considered overrated if most people couldn't afford to live there. Since New York is known as being a great place to live, but most people can't do all the things that make it a great place to live, then yes, its overrated. Just because finances are a factor doesn't make it any less overrated.

And yes, as a grad student, finances is certainly limiting. At the same time, there are professionals who work multiple jobs with similarly frustrating experiences. There are a lot of New Yorkers who live there who wouldn't live anywhere else, and others who, if given the opportunity would leave at the drop of a dime. Most of the ones who want to leave are probably not super rich, but some are upper middle class (relative to the rest of the country) and others are working class, and, for them, New York living is overrated.

Besides finances, I also mentioned several things that made it overrated for New York youth who told me distinctly that they didn't care for the city too much. Some kids (and their parents) want back yards and green space. Many parents want schools that are not so heavily influenced by the private sector (as many public schools in New York are) and have the heavy hand of one man involved (Mayor Bloomberg, who has mayoral control). The roads and infrastructure of New York (bridges, freeways) are in constant disrepair. Many residential buildings are old and outdated. The city is letting much of its public housing go in disrepair and it breeds crime and other social problems. These are all lifestyle issues that a large number of New Yorkers have to deal with, primarily people of color and working class folks, which forms the majority of New Yorkers. That is also why, of the people who want to leave, many of them fit these categories. So their perspective doesn't matter because New York is known to be expensive and they should just deal with it? For them, New York is overated.

I look at this a little differently as well from a social perspective. New York to me represents the apex of capitalism, and that, to me, is unfortunate. As you've basically asserted, it's mostly for rich people and people who fall into the grind of working non stop to meet basic needs. You have to meet basic needs in other cities, but the stress and energy one must put forth to do that is unhealthy and unnecessary. While the average working class person in NYC is pushed to the outer boroughs and can't afford to or have time to enjoy the Guggenheim or Central Park, the elite few of the city (and again those who make certain sacrifices to do so) have it at their fingertips. This brings into play social justice issues and a whole host of other things that bothered me about the essence of New York. The average person is rushing to and from destinations on the street in the subway and everywhere else, while those who have the economic resources can cruise in a cab or escorted car. Of course I'll be able to enjoy New York better when I make some money, but the fact that money has to be at the center of New York life is troublesome on a deeper level.

New York is considered by lists and surveys to be the best city in America. It is not called the best city in America for rich people. If it's just limiting to rich people and those who sacrifice to live the New York lifestyle, for those (most of us) who don't fit that bill, it is damn overrated. If it ain't the best living experience for most people, who's coming up with that standard? The elite folks who come up with those lists and tell everyone how great New York is and some loud locals who believe New York is the only way.

Last edited by bizchick86; 09-09-2009 at 10:11 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: State College,PA
275 posts, read 363,792 times
Reputation: 214
Quote:
Originally Posted by bizchick86
As you've basically asserted, it's mostly for rich people and people who fall into the grind of working non stop to meet basic needs.
I never asserted this.

As far as all your complaints about stress and lifestyle issues in NYC is concerned, NYC is known for that too. So, no, it is not overrated there either. You are unfairly pinning NYC for a phenomenon that is common in major cities worldwide. In fact, major cities in undeveloped countries have much more stressful lives than what we have in our major cities.

In fact, according to recent studies, NYC is not even #1 in the US for most stressful life:
http://realestate.yahoo.com/promo/am...ties-2009.html

You then go on about the social ills of NYC, but Atlanta is consistently worse in crime rate, unemployment, and other social ills...

Quote:
Since Atlanta is known as being a pretty affordable big city, and is highly rated as such, it would be considered overrated if most people couldn't afford to live there. Since New York is known as being a great place to live, but most people can't do all the things that make it a great place to live, then yes, its overrated
But don't you see the irony in your statement? You said it yourself that Atlanta is known as being pretty affordable, and it lives up to its reputation, thus it is not over-rated.
New York, however, is not known as a very affordable city, so it can't be held to the same standards of affordability as Atlanta. New York claims to be expensive, and it is! You may not like the expenses but the problem is that you are you are expecting NYC to have a reputation it doesn't and never had to begin with.

Regardless, I don't share your definition/viewpoint of over-rated. It doesn't fit with the traditional definition of the term, it is skewed, and you are mixing two different things. But I will agree to disagree.

Quote:
New York is considered by lists and surveys to be the best city in America. It is not called the best city in America for rich people. If it's just limiting to rich people and those who sacrifice to live the New York lifestyle, for those (most of us) who don't fit that bill, it is damn overrated. If it ain't the best living experience for most people, who's coming up with that standard? The elite folks who come up with those lists and tell everyone how great New York is and some loud locals who believe New York is the only way.
That is a wide brush stroke there. Surveys don't say NYC is the "best city in America" or "the best city to live" in America. It is quite the contrary:

Here are recent "Best places to live" in America surveys...
Best Places to Live 2009 - from Money Magazine
Relocate-America's™ 2009 Top 100 Places to Live (http://top100.relocate-america.com/ - broken link)


What surveys DO say is that NYC has the most entertainment value, most culture, most diversity, best restaurants (and so on) over any other city in America...This is NOT the same thing as being "the best city to live in" or the "best city in America." And with surveys consistently saying that NYC is also the most expensive city in the America, where does that leave us?

Well, NYC is the city with the most culture, diversity, and entertainment value over any other US city AS LONG AS YOU CAN AFFORD IT. NYC has never denied this and the sooner people can understand the difference, the better.

So, again, NYC says what is claims it does. No more and no less. And, to me, because it doesn't pretend to be a "cheap" and "extremely affordable" city (when it is not), it is not overrated.

However, it is also incorrect to say you need to be "rich" to live a happy life in the NYC area...

Last edited by Lancer78; 09-09-2009 at 11:10 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
887 posts, read 1,158,209 times
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Quote:
New York, however, has NEVER made the claim that it's a very affordable city, so it can't be held to the same standards of affordability as Atlanta.
Where did I say New York makes claims about being "cheap" or "affordable"? You are grossly misunderstanding my point.

You believe, if I'm interpreting correctly, that New York is not overrated because it does what it says it does, no more no less. They have the best fine dining, best hotels, most cultural offerings, etc. Surveys and lists in professional magazines rate it so, and New York's amenities all fit the bill. This is all absolutely correct.

What I'm saying is for many people, these criteria are not the only way they "rate" something. Further, these rankings are not the only sources I or others use to make a statement that something is over or underated. There are New York transplants who may come down to a city and claim that New York is the "best" in a very general sense (and we have had many in Atlanta) , people on these boards who say that New York is the greatest American city, the best city in the world, etc. All of these experiences I've had with people who have made these claims all shape my opinion on how New York is rated. I read surveys every now and then who make objective claims, but there are many other subjective claims that trump up New York to be some vague "best," period.

The thread is not what cities we think are overrated in terms of cultural offerings and fine dining. Obviously no one would be reasonable making that claim. New York is a beast, and I love that (which is why my first post discussed how great it is to visit). The thread did not define what is rated and what is not. My interpretation is how I feel when I live there versus what my expectation was based on what is talked about, not just in lists, but a general attitude.

My personal experience and my opinion on how New York is rated (not ranked, as would be in a survey) is similar to others who have left the city for similar reasons. Your ranking is fine dining, cultural amenities, and other activities you shared. My measure, as is the measure of many others, is quality of life.

So yes, I suppose we'll agree to disagree :-).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78 View Post
^ Again, I don't share your definition/viewpoint of over-rated. It doesn't fit with the traditional definition of the term, it is skewed, and you are mixing two different things. But I will agree to disagree.

That is a wide brush stroke there. Surveys don't say NYC is the "best city in America" or "the best city to live" in America. It is quite the contrary:

Here is are recent "Best places to live" in America surveys...
Best Places to Live 2009 - from Money Magazine
Relocate-America's™ 2009 Top 100 Places to Live (http://top100.relocate-america.com/ - broken link)


What surveys DO say is that NYC has the most entertainment value, most culture, more diversity (and so on) over any other city in America...This is NOT the same thing as being "the best city to live in" or the "best city in America." And with surveys consistently saying that NYC is also the most expensive city in the America, where does that leave us?

Well, NYC is the city with the most culture, diversity, and entertainment value over any other US city AS LONG AS YOU CAN AFFORD IT. NYC has never denied this and the sooner people can understand the difference, the better.

So, again, NYC says what is claims it does. No more and no less. And, to me, because it doesn't pretend to be a "cheap" and "extremely affordable" city (when it is not), it is not overrated.

However, it is also incorrect to say you need to be "rich" to live a happy life in the NYC area...

Last edited by bizchick86; 09-09-2009 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:02 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,395 posts, read 14,029,722 times
Reputation: 5297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78 View Post
^Hmmm.. I still have to pay for food, rent, and transportation no matter where I live..

To repeat.. I had similar financial problems as a student in relatively cheaper Phoenix and Atlanta. That doesn't mean they are over-rated solely because I didn't have enough money to enjoy all their offerings. I suggest living in NYC as a professional making decent money and not as a student. It's easy to complain about NYC's expenses as a graduate student. You can't enjoy NYC if you can't afford the lifestyle there. That goes without saying and is true anywhere else as well.

The cultural offerings in the other US cities don't compare in quantity/quality, overall, to the cultural offerings in NYC. Living in NYC is not an experience that is easily substituted with just any other city!

The only definition of over-rated I accept is the one in the dictionary.

NYC has the rep for being very expensive, just like people say. So, no, it's not overrated in terms of expenses. NYC is what it says it is.
Hrrm... being broke in a big city is easier though... Most of them have free days at all the cultural institutions, concerts and plenty of cheap delicious food too... It doesn't all have to be 50 dollar covers, morimotos for dinner and taking a taxi everywhere. That being said some people just aren't suited for the big city. Plus you get to be around people who will hopefully push YOU to excel, challenge your perceptions, have intelligent meaningful conversations, put you in with better contacts, etc.
If you've already got kids at home and can't move into a high income job, the type to not appreciate good food, sit home and watch cable more than go out... Then yeah why would you move into a big city if you are going to be doing the same boring stuff? Get out of there and let your place come up for rent on craigslist so somebody who actually wants to be there can.
I've been stuck in smaller cities like 150k...and even having money, there is nothing I want to do there! I don't click with other people, I complain about anywhere I eat out b/c its bland or chain crap, different lifestyles, what is the point!?
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: State College,PA
275 posts, read 363,792 times
Reputation: 214
^Yes, as you've implied, there's a lot of free fairs and festivals in the NYC area. Not everything needs to cost an arm and a leg.

A lot of people certainly aren't suited for big city life (which explains why NYC does not score high on "quality of life" surveys). That's why you shouldn't live in a big city unless you know you will be able to afford it and make the required lifestyle changes (consider ditching your car, walking more, taking the subway, living outside Manhattan if possible..etc)! It's also a personality thing and if your personality doesn't fit bit city life, it is indeed better to stay where you are at.
It sounds like a simple concept but it throws a lot of people from smaller areas off!

Last edited by Lancer78; 09-09-2009 at 11:13 AM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:14 AM
 
Location: The Queen City
444 posts, read 738,788 times
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Miami, NYC, and LA are all over-rated to me.
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:15 AM
 
Location: roaming gnome
12,395 posts, read 14,029,722 times
Reputation: 5297
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lancer78 View Post
^Yes, as you've implied, there's a lot of free fairs and festivals in the NYC area. Not everything needs to cost an arm and a leg.

A lot of people certainly aren't suited for big city life (which explains why NYC does not score high on "quality of life" surveys). That's why you shouldn't live in a big city unless you know you will be able to afford it and make the required lifestyle changes (consider ditching your car, walking more, taking the subway, living outside Manhattan if possible..etc)! It's also a personality thing and if your personality doesn't fit bit city life, it is indeed better to stay where you are at.
It sounds like a simple concept but it throws a lot of people from smaller areas off!
Exactly... wow, just saw you are in Orlando... ouchhhh, can't think of a more artificial cookie cutter place. The city I was referring to at 150k was also in FL... I feel your pain.
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