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I think most people associate urban with being good and suburban with being bad. Its not always the case. Sometime the neatest things of an area are in the suburbs.
I often compare Dallas and Atlanta because they seem to be virtual carbon copies of one another from a city planning perspective. In these cities most of the diversity and ethnicity comes from the suburbs. For example, Atlanta's Korean community is centered in Doraville which is a suburb. The Buford Highway in the Atlanta suburbs is another example. Dallas' Vietnamese community is centered in Garland and Arlington and their Indian community is centered in Richardson. All of these are suburbs.
You could also look at Los Angeles. Our suburbs are some of the most diverse in the country. Carson is the center of the Filipino community, Beverly Hills/Westwood is the center of the Persian community, The San Fernando Valley is the center of the Israeli community, Westminster/Garden Grove is home to the largest little Saigon in the country. All of these are suburbs.
So I think you really have to look at an area and not just the city proper to truly gage what it has to offer.
I agree with everything you just said, you hit the nail right on the head.
I think it would have been good to define urban area. Its simply a place with increased human-created structures in comparision to the areas around it.
Miami.....wins if we are talking about a collection of building.
Dallas..... wins if we are talking about overall human structure in a urban area. 600,000 k more people.
I think most people associate urban with being good and suburban with being bad. Its not always the case. Sometime the neatest things of an area are in the suburbs.
I often compare Dallas and Atlanta because they seem to be virtual carbon copies of one another from a city planning perspective. In these cities most of the diversity and ethnicity comes from the suburbs. For example, Atlanta's Korean community is centered in Doraville which is a suburb. The Buford Highway in the Atlanta suburbs is another example. Dallas' Vietnamese community is centered in Garland and Arlington and their Indian community is centered in Richardson. All of these are suburbs.
You could also look at Los Angeles. Our suburbs are some of the most diverse in the country. Carson is the center of the Filipino community, Beverly Hills/Westwood is the center of the Persian community, The San Fernando Valley is the center of the Israeli community, Westminster/Garden Grove is home to the largest little Saigon in the country. All of these are suburbs.
So I think you really have to look at an area and not just the city proper to truly gage what it has to offer.
Agreed. I was speaking more for the metro areas and not just the actually city limits.
I was speaking overall urbanism as far as how cities are structured, density, mass transit,etc
By this definition, Miami is the clear winner.
However, when I think of urbanity, it has more to do with people than it does buildings and infrastructure.
For example. There are areas of Long Island that are more dense than ANYWHERE in the south. However, the mentality of the folks that live in these areas of LI are VERY suburban (the cars they drive, where they shop, their hobbies, where they WON'T send their kids to school, their bias against certain areas of NYC, etc).
In the South, there are MANY areas in some cities that are almost rural when it comes to density. However, the mentality of the folks that live in these areas are very "urban". In Atlanta, some of the areas of town with the least density (ie, the corridor along Bankhead Hwy heading west of downtown) has an urban mentality that is superior to the folks living in Buckhead (an area of town with some of the highest densities).
I guess what I am saying is that density (to me) doesn't always mean "urban". Sprawl doesn't always mean "suburban". You are more likely to be mugged in Atlanta's most "sprawled" development than you are in the most developed parts of the Atl.
Culturally, Atlanta is by far the most "urban" of the cities named on this thread (eventhough it has the lowest density of the four). I hope this makes sense.
Miami is dense but people, it is not that urban. If you get away from Miami Beach and the areas surrounding Downtown Miami, the area turns very suburban pretty quickly. You need a car to get around the majority of Miami (even the city of Miami). I would say the Inner Loop and the City are about as equal when it comes to urbanity but density easily goes to Miami.
SW Houston is dense but like Miami is very suburban.
That is somewhat true. Once you drive west of I-95 it gets HEAVILY suburban, especially in places like Hialeah, West Miami, and Miami Springs. I agree with you, the difference with Miami and the other cities listed is Miami has DENSE suburbanization. Miami, and the rest of the metro from Miami ALL THE WAY to West Palm Beach, is REALLY DENSE suburbs. Because South Florida being stuck inbetween the Glades and the Atlantic, it has no choice but to be dense. As a matter of fact I would go on to say that the South Florida Metro and the LA metro are just alike in terms of Urbanity, both are really DENSE, YET sprawled out suburbs. It's just like LA, just substitute the Mojave Desert with the everglades, and vice versa, and the metros are alike.
However, when I think of urbanity, it has more to do with people than it does buildings and infrastructure.
For example. There are areas of Long Island that are more dense than ANYWHERE in the south. However, the mentality of the folks that live in these areas of LI are VERY suburban (the cars they drive, where they shop, their hobbies, where they WON'T send their kids to school, their bias against certain areas of NYC, etc).
In the South, there are MANY areas in some cities that are almost rural when it comes to density. However, the mentality of the folks that live in these areas are very "urban". In Atlanta, some of the areas of town with the least density (ie, the corridor along Bankhead Hwy heading west of downtown) has an urban mentality that is superior to the folks living in Buckhead (an area of town with some of the highest densities).
I guess what I am saying is that density (to me) doesn't always mean "urban". Sprawl doesn't always mean "suburban". You are more likely to be mugged in Atlanta's most "sprawled" development than you are in the most developed parts of the Atl.
Culturally, Atlanta is by far the most "urban" of the cities named on this thread (eventhough it has the lowest density of the four). I hope this makes sense.
I'm not sure if you can say "culturally" Atlanta is the most urban. Are you relating this to the fact that ATL receives lots of transplants from the NE???
I guess I should've been more specific; I wasn't only speaking on just mass transit and architect. Also Diversity, mindset, atmosphere and more.
Having spent much time in all these cities, I'd call it even. Miami has a disproportionate amount of high-rise hotels relative to the others; subtracting that, it's about the same.
I'm not sure if you can say "culturally" Atlanta is the most urban. Are you relating this to the fact that ATL receives lots of transplants from the NE???
I guess I should've been more specific; I wasn't only speaking on just mass transit and architect. Also Diversity, mindset, atmosphere and more.
Atlanta has folks with "country slang", but they are VERY urban in their mindsets. They ride the MARTA everywhere. Many (females) raise their children without the "baby daddy's" help. Many of the "baby daddy's" have records. This is something that you will find in Atlanta's poorest areas (and also Atlanta's least dense areas). There is NOTHING suburban about the mentality of Atlanta's lesser dense areas of town.
This is something that I find myself having to educate Northern transplants on from time to time. They move to the south, they see less density, and they automatically think "WOW, this is soooo nice, clean, and suburban". Then they b$tch 6 months later about the "high crime" and the "thugs" in their neighborhood. Little had they realized that they'd moved to "da hood" when they thought they moved down south to the "burbs" (or "the country").
That's why when transplants say "we would like to stay in the burbs" on their opening post, I sometimes direct message them to find out what their idea of "the burbs" are. Most times, they are looking for an area of town with less density and low crime. The problem is that most towns in the south are the most urban (ie, dangerous) where density is low. This is because low density areas are cheap enough for the poor folks to live.
And please, don't anyone get offended by my "poor folks" comment. I grew up in a housing project in Charlotte (Southside homes). I dated a girl awhile back that lived in an Atlanta Housing project (Bankhead Courts).
Atlanta has folks with "country slang", but they are VERY urban in their mindsets. They ride the MARTA everywhere. Many (females) raise their children without the "baby daddy's" help. Many of the "baby daddy's" have records. This is something that you will find in Atlanta's poorest areas (and also Atlanta's least dense areas). There is NOTHING suburban about the mentality of Atlanta's lesser dense areas of town.
This is something that I find myself having to educate Northern transplants on from time to time. They move to the south, they see less density, and they automatically think "WOW, this is soooo nice, clean, and suburban". Then they b$tch 6 months later about the "high crime" and the "thugs" in their neighborhood. Little had they realized that they'd moved to "da hood" when they thought they moved down south to the "burbs" (or "the country").
That's why when transplants say "we would like to stay in the burbs" on their opening post, I sometimes direct message them to find out what their idea of "the burbs" are. Most times, they are looking for an area of town with less density and low crime. The problem is that most towns in the south are the most urban (ie, dangerous) where density is low. This is because low density areas are cheap enough for the poor folks to live.
And please, don't anyone get offended by my "poor folks" comment. I grew up in a housing project in Charlotte (Southside homes). I dated a girl awhile back that lived in an Atlanta Housing project (Bankhead Courts).
If that is consider urban mindset, than each city ranks next to eachother. Also, Atlanta is the only city out of the four that has a developed transit system.
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