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To expect D.C. type things of Raleigh is just a little too much, IMO.
Not if you envision them on a scale appropriate for Raleigh, just as what Charlotte has gotten in the way of mass transit and TOD is appropriate for this city. I certainly wasn't trying to imply that Raleigh could make such a transition overnight even if funding for rail-based transit suddenly became available tomorrow.
Well, in the case of Raleigh, you've got to think regionally. Yes, it is technically its own MSA, but its economy is very regional in nature; Raleigh is the largest city in the region, yet the largest employment center, RTP, is located next door in Durham County. The Triangle has a population of 1.69 million, which is practically the same size as the Charlotte MSA (and the Hampton Roads area, which is also getting light rail), and it's growing faster. What that region is missing more than anything is the political will, not really the numbers.
2 more points to make:
RTP is in both Durham and Wake Counties. The larger portion of it is in Durham County but a good chunk of it is in Wake County too. To me, this is the main reason why the two metros should be one.
The second point I'd like to make is about political will. I wouldn't say that the area doesn't have political will. After all, Raleigh was just named the most political city in the country. I'd say that the bigger issue is regional cooperation among a large number of municipalities that have their own agendas. At 900,000, Wake County alone doesn't have a singular city dominating it in the way that Charlotte completely dominates Mecklenburg. Raleigh isn't even half the total county population while Charlotte is probably more than 70% of Mecklenburg. Add to this the will of Durham and Chapel Hill and you can see that managing a strategy like regional rail is a more difficult undertaking. Funding is also a problem. TTA has tried for funding but gets shot down federally. Again, if the visibility to the area is returned as a single metro, perhaps that will help? Who knows? Let's see if it can happen by 2020 as is the current plan. My guess is that, by then, the Triangle will certainly be more populated than Hampton Roads and probably nibbling at Charlotte's CSA population.
I wasn't bad-mouthing Raleigh...but just saying that it doesn't have the advantage of being part of Washington D.C.'s metro area like NOVA. To expect D.C. type things of Raleigh is just a little too much, IMO. I've visited Raleigh many times and I really like it there.
I wasn't reading any bad mouthing at all in your posts. In fact, I think you have been really kind to Raleigh in your posts. Please don't think that I was thinking otherwise. I agree, D.C. is huge in terms of pushing the NOVA area. Good for them! But, I will tell you that I feel like I am in Cary when I am in Herndon or Reston.
2 more points to make:[list=1][*]RTP is in both Durham and Wake Counties. The larger portion of it is in Durham County but a good chunk of it is in Wake County too. To me, this is the main reason why the two metros should be one.
I do know that part of the park is in Wake County, but the bulk of it is in Durham County. It all just runs together to be honest.
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[*]The second point I'd like to make is about political will. I wouldn't say that the area doesn't have political will. After all, Raleigh was just named the most political city in the country. I'd say that the bigger issue is regional cooperation among a large number of municipalities that have their own agendas. At 900,000, Wake County alone doesn't have a singular city dominating it in the way that Charlotte completely dominates Mecklenburg. Raleigh isn't even half the total county population while Charlotte is probably more than 70% of Mecklenburg. Add to this the will of Durham and Chapel Hill and you can see that managing a strategy like regional rail is a more difficult undertaking. Funding is also a problem. TTA has tried for funding but gets shot down federally. Again, if the visibility to the area is returned as a single metro, perhaps that will help? Who knows? Let's see if it can happen by 2020 as is the current plan. My guess is that, by then, the Triangle will certainly be more populated than Hampton Roads and probably nibbling at Charlotte's CSA population.
You are correct about regional cooperation and that's what I was really trying to get at by mentioning political will.
I do know that part of the park is in Wake County, but the bulk of it is in Durham County. It all just runs together to be honest.
Much of RTP's growth over the last ten + years has been Wake County focused. Cisco, NetApp & Biogen are all on the Wake County side of RTP. So, while it's true that the "bulk" of RTP is in Durham County, the Wake side is not insignificant. Additionally, Lenovo, the former IBM PC division moved out of the park to adjacent land in Morrisville (Wake County).
For thos unfamiliar with RTP, here's a link to peruse at your leisure: The Research Triangle Park
In the end, you are correct that it all runs together in the Triangle. Again, it's the reason why it should be one metro and not two. Just look at the inset map on the link above and tell me how in the world that's supposed to be 2 separate metro areas.
Much of RTP's growth over the last ten + years has been Wake County focused. Cisco, NetApp & Biogen are all on the Wake County side of RTP. So, while it's true that the "bulk" of RTP is in Durham County, the Wake side is not insignificant. Additionally, Lenovo, the former IBM PC division moved out of the park to adjacent land in Morrisville (Wake County).
For thos unfamiliar with RTP, here's a link to peruse at your leisure: The Research Triangle Park
Much of RTP's growth over the last ten + years has been Wake County focused. Cisco, NetApp & Biogen are all on the Wake County side of RTP. So, while it's true that the "bulk" of RTP is in Durham County, the Wake side is not insignificant. Additionally, Lenovo, the former IBM PC division moved out of the park to adjacent land in Morrisville (Wake County).
For thos unfamiliar with RTP, here's a link to peruse at your leisure: The Research Triangle Park
In the end, you are correct that it all runs together in the Triangle. Again, it's the reason why it should be one metro and not two. Just look at the inset map on the link above and tell me how in the world that's supposed to be 2 separate metro areas.
I think it was detrimental to the area for it to be divided into two separate metros...I don't really understand the reasoning of the Census Bureau. But the same thing happened to the Triad...even though I think THAT separation was positive for Winston-Salem, because Greensboro always got top billing in that relationship. Is it the same way with Durham and Raleigh?
I think it was detrimental to the area for it to be divided into two separate metros...I don't really understand the reasoning of the Census Bureau. But the same thing happened to the Triad...even though I think THAT separation was positive for Winston-Salem, because Greensboro always got top billing in that relationship.
True. Greensboro and Winston-Salem are practically the same size, but Winston suffered by not having the larger city population. Now it gets some positive press on its own; in some cases, Greensboro probably dragged Winston down a bit under the old MSA designation.
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Is it the same way with Durham and Raleigh?
Good question. From the little I observed, it doesn't seem to be. In some rankings, Raleigh and Durham still get lumped together anyway (like that "America's Smartest Cities" ranking) and in others, they rank very close to each other (Forbes "Best Places for Business").
I am from raleigh nc and have been living in newport news for 5 years i spend most of my time in norfolk though so i can give you a good opinion. Traffic is worst n norfolk and all surrounding areas bridges and tunnels everywhere only 2 lanes a lot of times its awful. Raleighs traffic is a little better because of much better roads and many more lanes but it still sucks as it does in any city. Norfolk is extremely dense and the only true city of the area chesapeake and va beach are just its suburbs suffolk is the country and portsmouth is just a continuation of norfolk. Newport news hampton are completely different areas. Raleigh is a lot more like chesapeake or va beach than norfolk wxcwpt fir a true downtown. Public transportation sucks in both but is a little better in raleigh just by bus hampton newport news sucks with public transportation. Oppurtunities are great both in norfolk if you are interested im hovernment jobs military or have a trade especially toward shipbuilding its great. Raleigh is more typical ho to college wife kids life. Colleges are plentiful in both but raleigh area has many more great universities(duke unc nc state st augustine..Nightlife in norfolk is great va beach and portsmouth too. A different style much more toward military and a different type of people. Raleigh has a great nightlife also but better for college kids and both have many concerts they both have zoos aquariums museums raleigh has more parks but va beach has mt trashmore and a beach norfolk and most of the other cities have beaches too. Sports is raleigh pro hockey team duje vs unc games are great norfolj.lacks there. Weather is humid hot in both they are very southern places idc bout transplants the people and pace in both are extremely southern weather and bugs too. Crime is worst in norfolk especially since nice neighborhoods turn into the hood and vice versa. Raleigh is rough on all sides around downtown. Mini city on the north sutheast on the southside and eastside right by downtown westside close to nc state as well mainly all of the inneity the rest is college kids soccer mom businessman dad suburbia. Norfolk is all inner city really the suburbs of it are hthe cities by it. With all that said i like raleigh more if you are a military or shipyard worker type than i would say nirfolk i have been everywhere and norfolk and raleigh are great. Chapel hill and durham arent great and neither are the.other 7 cities iif you have to move to either area raleigh and norfolk-vabeach is where to go. The other parts of nc and va are great too explore them both hope i helped.
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