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Old 04-14-2012, 07:48 AM
 
Location: California x North Carolina (soon)...
3,338 posts, read 2,253,146 times
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I didnt clarify. I wasnt referring to all NC cities as having the traditional southern feel, I was comparing the rural characteristics of Southside VA to rural areas of NC. However I do disagree with your above post....

Raleigh kind of stands alone in the "new south" thing from anywhere else in the state. I personally think Charlotte is a better city overall, and they are neck and neck in growth rates, but Raleigh is faster. It is actually growing a good bit faster than Charlotte that evidences that. If you've been to both cities, you are hit with two things: one, that Charlotte is huge, obviously the larger of the two, but 2, that Charlotte doesnt seem as urbanized outside of Downtown/Uptown. Both have that oversized suburb feel, but Raleigh has intangibles that can only be felt, not really told, that Charlotte doesnt have...

To that point, Durham is country. When I went to Durham I was extremely disappointed. Outside of Duke and Southpoint, that city is not much to see. It is most definitely the "Oakland" to Raleigh's "San Francisco". They get lumped together alot because of their proximity in the metro, but the contrast between the two cities is amazing...

I have a half sister who grew up in DC but lives in Winston, so I'm familiar with there as well. Winston seems to be a little more progressive than its counterpart (Greensboro), but pales to cities like the "Big 2", and even Fayetteville and Greenville. In fact, Fayetteville trais only Raleigh in population density in NC. Of course, Winston beats it in other areas but you get my drift. Winston and the whole Triad region, while being the thirld biggest area of the Carolinas, is eons behind the Triangle and Metro Charlotte...
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Old 04-14-2012, 08:09 AM
 
27,773 posts, read 24,803,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
I didnt clarify. I wasnt referring to all NC cities as having the traditional southern feel, I was comparing the rural characteristics of Southside VA to rural areas of NC. However I do disagree with your above post....

Raleigh kind of stands alone in the "new south" thing from anywhere else in the state. I personally think Charlotte is a better city overall, and they are neck and neck in growth rates, but Raleigh is faster. It is actually growing a good bit faster than Charlotte that evidences that. If you've been to both cities, you are hit with two things: one, that Charlotte is huge, obviously the larger of the two, but 2, that Charlotte doesnt seem as urbanized outside of Downtown/Uptown. Both have that oversized suburb feel, but Raleigh has intangibles that can only be felt, not really told, that Charlotte doesnt have...

To that point, Durham is country. When I went to Durham I was extremely disappointed. Outside of Duke and Southpoint, that city is not much to see. It is most definitely the "Oakland" to Raleigh's "San Francisco". They get lumped together alot because of their proximity in the metro, but the contrast between the two cities is amazing...

I have a half sister who grew up in DC but lives in Winston, so I'm familiar with there as well. Winston seems to be a little more progressive than its counterpart (Greensboro), but pales to cities like the "Big 2", and even Fayetteville and Greenville. In fact, Fayetteville trais only Raleigh in population density in NC. Of course, Winston beats it in other areas but you get my drift. Winston and the whole Triad region, while being the thirld biggest area of the Carolinas, is eons behind the Triangle and Metro Charlotte...
None of those things have anything to do with an "old South" feel. Whatever you think about Durham's "countryness," it is the wealthiest and most educated county in the state and is home to the highest-ranked institution of higher learning in the entire South and the vast majority of the world's largest research park. Sorry, but those aren't "old South" characteristics. The term "old South" tends to refer to the older cities in the South that still have their historic urban fabric largely intact (e.g., Charleston, Savannah, New Orleans, etc.) OR the less progressive parts of the South, which is usually reserved for the more rural areas of the deep South. Wilmington falls in the former category, and sometimes Greenville is put in the latter category. Aside from that, the vast majority of the larger urban areas of NC fail to fit that criteria.
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Old 04-14-2012, 10:22 AM
 
Location: California x North Carolina (soon)...
3,338 posts, read 2,253,146 times
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What you're not getting is Durham is nt new south. Durham was, and still does, retain a reputation in agriculture, tobacco and furniture. And Duke University is old news. Duke and the associated Duke hospitals/research facilities didnt come to prominence within this century. Duke has long been regarded as Ivy-type...

There has been new facilities added, and an influx of jobs in the research and technological fields in recent years, yes. But "New South" also applies to cities that are currently carving out their niche, moreso than cementing a historic reputation. And Durham is a little of both. If you've gone there, you know that Durham is dreadful away from the university. And the NEWER research and health facilities are not even located in Durham proper...
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:43 PM
 
23 posts, read 21,211 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Razorblade View Post
Southerners NEVER considered DC to be the south. Only northerners, it's mid atlantic, Baltimore is just out of the question, anyone thinking Baltimore is southern is off there rocker. Even places like Norfolk are really pushing it, go down to Mississippi or Alabama or even the Panhandle in Florida and no one considers any part of Virgina to be the south, the Mason Dixon line only matters to outsiders and northerners. It has nothing to do with slavery either, East Tennessee had almost no slaves during it's entire history. South Knoxville was a hotbed for abolitionists 100 years before slavery up until the civil war, but to call a place like Knoxville not the south is just stupid.
Too say that East Tennessee had almost no slaves, and that Knoxville was a hotbed for abolitionists(Knoxville voted 2 to 1 for secession),is stretching it a little bit. Better check that info a little closer.
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Old 04-15-2012, 09:17 AM
 
27,773 posts, read 24,803,389 times
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Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
What you're not getting is Durham is nt new south. Durham was, and still does, retain a reputation in agriculture, tobacco and furniture. And Duke University is old news. Duke and the associated Duke hospitals/research facilities didnt come to prominence within this century. Duke has long been regarded as Ivy-type...

There has been new facilities added, and an influx of jobs in the research and technological fields in recent years, yes. But "New South" also applies to cities that are currently carving out their niche, moreso than cementing a historic reputation. And Durham is a little of both. If you've gone there, you know that Durham is dreadful away from the university. And the NEWER research and health facilities are not even located in Durham proper...
Dude, what year do you live in?????? You are totally and completely out-of-touch if you think people still largely think of Durham as an agricultural and tobacco town (and furniture was never a signature industry for Durham; you must be confusing it with High Point or Hickory). I'm sorry, but metros with those sorts of reputations don't experience the growth and prosperity that Durham has over the past three decades. And what is your point about Duke and healthcare not having come to prominence this century? You DO know that "New South" doesn't refer to cities that have started coming into their own only a decade ago, right??? And even using your definition of New South cities as ones that are "carving out their niche" (which is VERY broad; hell, you could say that about Lynchburg and it's hardly "New South") Durham still qualifies according to that definition. The niche it's carving out is mostly economic, but aside from that, the arts are BIG business in Durham. And you're attempting to say that because Durham has some rough areas that it's not "New South"? This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. And in many metro areas, newer facilities won't be in the city proper. And Durham has some rough areas; so what? What city doesn't? There are several places not near Duke that are pleasant so that's a huge exaggeration.

It's clear that you're isolated living in Richmond which skews your perspective in such an unreasonable way. No way in hell is Durham "old South." That's the most laughable thing I've read on here in some time and I guarantee if you posed that question in the Triangle forum on the NC board, you'd get clowned pretty hard about that.
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Old 04-16-2012, 03:28 AM
 
Location: California x North Carolina (soon)...
3,338 posts, read 2,253,146 times
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Listen guy, I dont live in Richmond. I'm from there. I live in New York. I didnt confuse Durham with anywhere. All you're doing is validating my original point that outside of Duke University and the Streets at Southpoint, there is nothing going on in that city. Duke is the driving force. There is no rebuttal you can give to any argument about Durham without mentioning Duke, which as prolific as it is, does not make up for the depressing atmosphere elsewhere in town. This isnt about "rough areas". And I am very familiar with the Triangle at large. You're the one who seems to be out of touch. There isnt a single Triangle resident that would give Durham the credo you do. Durham's growth has been fueled by Raleigh and Wake County, as a portion of Raleigh is in Durham County, and by the Research Triangle Park, which isnt even in Durham proper weirdo. Whereas there was once a time the two cities were more equal, Raleigh is advancing further and further away from Durham each day. Seems like you either have to live there or take an extended stay to know that, instead of all this talk about Duke. Duke is Duke. Its not Durham, although surely many people wish it was. It is in Durham, it is a PART of Durham. Get off my bumper...
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:19 AM
 
27,773 posts, read 24,803,389 times
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Originally Posted by murksiderock View Post
Listen guy, I dont live in Richmond. I'm from there. I live in New York. I didnt confuse Durham with anywhere. All you're doing is validating my original point that outside of Duke University and the Streets at Southpoint, there is nothing going on in that city. Duke is the driving force. There is no rebuttal you can give to any argument about Durham without mentioning Duke, which as prolific as it is, does not make up for the depressing atmosphere elsewhere in town. This isnt about "rough areas". And I am very familiar with the Triangle at large. You're the one who seems to be out of touch. There isnt a single Triangle resident that would give Durham the credo you do. Durham's growth has been fueled by Raleigh and Wake County, as a portion of Raleigh is in Durham County, and by the Research Triangle Park, which isnt even in Durham proper weirdo. Whereas there was once a time the two cities were more equal, Raleigh is advancing further and further away from Durham each day. Seems like you either have to live there or take an extended stay to know that, instead of all this talk about Duke. Duke is Duke. Its not Durham, although surely many people wish it was. It is in Durham, it is a PART of Durham. Get off my bumper...
This is silly. Yes Duke is a huge asset for not just Durham, but the Triangle at large, because it is one of the three institutions that make up the Research Triangle. That's the entire basis for RTP which is the biggest driving force of the Triangle at large, and most of it is within Durham County--why does it even matter if it's not in "Durham proper"? What is it with you and this obstinate obsession with city limits? We live in a metropolitan age where half of a city's assets aren't within the city proper. By your logic, I suppose we can discount Atlanta's airport or the largest business district that contains most of the Atlanta area's corporate headquarters since they aren't located within the city proper? And here's a big newsflash for you, since you seem to be oblivious to this fact: if it weren't for RTP, Raleigh wouldn't be what it is either. You think the rapid growth of Raleigh/Wake County is because of state government? Dude, WAKE UP.

At any rate, my point still stands: all of your criticisms about Durham have nothing to do with it being "old South." You are COMPLETELY misusing the term as it regards Durham. And yes, you must have confused Durham with High Point or Hickory when you mentioned furniture because that was never a pillar of the local economy like tobacco once was. The mere notion that people still think of tobacco and agriculture when they think of Durham is one of the most far-fetched things I've heard on here.
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Old 08-24-2012, 06:43 AM
 
Location: Knoxville, Tennessee
22,534 posts, read 46,102,156 times
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Originally Posted by sugamola View Post
Too say that East Tennessee had almost no slaves, and that Knoxville was a hotbed for abolitionists(Knoxville voted 2 to 1 for secession),is stretching it a little bit. Better check that info a little closer.
How is this for close?

Anti-slavery and anti-secession sentiment ran high in East Tennessee in the years leading up to the U.S. Civil War. William "Parson" Brownlow, the radical publisher of the Knoxville Whig, was one of the region's leading anti-secessionists (although he defended the practice of slavery). Blount County, just south of Knoxville, had developed into a center of abolitionist activity, due in part to its relatively large Quaker faction and the anti-slavery president of Maryville College, Isaac Anderson. The Greater Warner Tabernacle AME Zion Church, Knoxville was reportedly a station on the underground railroad. Business interests, however, guided largely by Knoxville's trade connections with cotton-growing centers to the south, contributed to the development of a strong pro-secession movement within the city. The city's pro-secessionists included among their ranks Dr. J.G.M. Ramsey, a prominent historian whose father had built the Ramsey House in 1797. Thus, while East Tennessee and greater Knox County voted decisively against secession in 1861, the city of Knoxville favored secession by a 2-1 margin. In late May 1861, just before the secession vote, delegates of the East Tennessee Convention met at Temperance Hall in Knoxville in hopes of keeping Tennessee in the Union. After Tennessee voted to secede the following month, the convention met in Greeneville and attempted to create a separate Union-aligned state in East Tennessee.

Born in the north but a Knovillian by the grace of God and my Eagle Talon.
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Old 08-24-2012, 09:36 PM
S90
 
Location: Miami, FL
21 posts, read 33,420 times
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What the hell is an "upper south". God, do people ever get tired of these damn regional threads. Regional threads attract people who only think regionally not globally. What a small town mindset. Enjoy your repeated arguments.

As for if Washington DC is "apart" of this then upper south. If not, then Atlanta.
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Old 08-25-2012, 09:48 AM
 
811 posts, read 780,280 times
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To be honest, talking about "upper south" and "Deep south", in a cultural context, by way of listing states, is highly inaccurate.

When you think of the deep south, you think of the coastal plain. You think of pine trees. You think of lots of black people. You think of a southern drawl/Virginia Tidewater/Elizabethan English. You think of agriculture, with cotton and peanuts being very prevalent. You also think of extremely muggy summer conditions, lots of mosquitos and sand gnats by the coast.

When you think of the deep south, you do not think of upland areas, mountains, twang, very few pine trees, and locations in most of the Piedmont. "Upper South" areas or upland areas are known for deciduous trees, less connection to agriculture, with the exceptions of corn and tobacco in some locations.

That said, the regions are really as follows:

DEEP SOUTH

Middle/Central & Southern Georgia
Central & Southern Alabama
Northwest Alabama
Mississippi
Louisiana (north of I-10)
Northern Florida
South Carolina (minus the upstate)
Eastern North Carolina
Eastern Virginia (outside the large cities)
East-Central & Southeast Texas
Southern Arkansas


Upland (Upper South)

North Georgia
Northeast and North Central Alabama
Upstate South Carolina
Tennessee (minus Memphis area)
Western & Central North Carolina
Western & Central Virginia
Kentucky
Northern & Central Arkansas
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