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i woudln't really exclude all of florida, north florida is definetly in the deep south.
Yes, I would agree that Northern Florida is Southern. Its quite ironic because to find the South in Florida you have to go North.
Miami is not southern by any means. And neither is Orlando really. Anything north of Orlando is very southern though. Especially the western panhandle of Florida
Yes, I would agree that Northern Florida is Southern. Its quite ironic because to find the South in Florida you have to go North.
Miami is not southern by any means. And neither is Orlando really. Anything north of Orlando is very southern though. Especially the western panhandle of Florida
I definitely agree the North Florida is the Deep South as it retains a lot of the culture found in South Georgia and Alabama. However, I thoroughly disagree that South Florida is not southern. South Florida is in the same boat as Northern Virignia, it was undoubtedly southern until transplants from Latin American countries and from the Northeast started making significant inroads. Older natives in South Florida have VERY southern accents that would be hard to confuse with North Florida and many other areas of the Deep South. Many people also seem to ignore the African-American population of South Florida, who, perhaps, provides the best reflection of how South Florida used to be. African-Americans in SoFla, excluding Haitians and West Indians, retain MANY southern traits, from the way they talk, to what they eat, to the way they dress. Much of the same cultural differences are present in West Palm Beach, Orlando, Fort Myers, and Tampa.
Florida is also geographically the most southern state in this country. So, I really think it is foolish to classify Florida as being anything but southern.
Wow...a lot to take in. I read everyone's post before starting my own, and I must say this is definitely a fascinating dialogue. I was born & raised in Mississippi, but also spent lots of time in Missouri (grandparents lived in KC and the Lake). And as an adult I've lived in California, Mississippi, Florida, Atlanta (notice I didn't say Georgia), and North Carolina (and now Missouri again).
I would consider west Tennessee to be deep South (Memphis is pretty much an extension of Mississippi), and Nashville eastward to be transitional (a mix of deep & upper South). The Deep South in Florida extends from Pensacola to Jacksonville to Ocala, roughly. Central FL (especially the I-4 Corridor) is a melting pot of the entire Eastern U.S. (and some from west of the Miss. River). The Atlantic Coast of Florida is populated by retirees from the Northeast, the Gulf Coast (Clearwater to Naples) by Midwesterners. Miami is a Latin American city on U.S. soil (along w/ most of the surrounding metro area)...the average person in line at the grocery store or walking through the mall speaks Spanish as their first language. These are first-hand observations from the years I spent in FL.
The line dividing the South as a whole from the North/Midwest can be best determined, in my opinion, by one main factor: Does every restaurant in town serve sweet tea? If yes, you're in the South. Where I live now (in Mid-MO), maybe 5 restaurants serve sweet tea, and most of them are national or regional chains, so I know I'm not in the South anymore! The probability of snowfall each year, I think, makes a good tool for distinguishing which states are Upper South & which are Deep South (if it's normal to get at least a little snow EVERY year, you're probably in the Upper South...the upper regions of the Deep South (northern portions of MS, AL, GA, southern AR) may see an inch of snow on average once every 3-4 years, while areas further south can go 10-20 years without one single snowflake.
Wow...a lot to take in. I read everyone's post before starting my own, and I must say this is definitely a fascinating dialogue. I was born & raised in Mississippi, but also spent lots of time in Missouri (grandparents lived in KC and the Lake). And as an adult I've lived in California, Mississippi, Florida, Atlanta (notice I didn't say Georgia), and North Carolina (and now Missouri again).
I would consider west Tennessee to be deep South (Memphis is pretty much an extension of Mississippi), and Nashville eastward to be transitional (a mix of deep & upper South). The Deep South in Florida extends from Pensacola to Jacksonville to Ocala, roughly. Central FL (especially the I-4 Corridor) is a melting pot of the entire Eastern U.S. (and some from west of the Miss. River). The Atlantic Coast of Florida is populated by retirees from the Northeast, the Gulf Coast (Clearwater to Naples) by Midwesterners. Miami is a Latin American city on U.S. soil (along w/ most of the surrounding metro area)...the average person in line at the grocery store or walking through the mall speaks Spanish as their first language. These are first-hand observations from the years I spent in FL.
The line dividing the South as a whole from the North/Midwest can be best determined, in my opinion, by one main factor: Does every restaurant in town serve sweet tea? If yes, you're in the South. Where I live now (in Mid-MO), maybe 5 restaurants serve sweet tea, and most of them are national or regional chains, so I know I'm not in the South anymore! The probability of snowfall each year, I think, makes a good tool for distinguishing which states are Upper South & which are Deep South (if it's normal to get at least a little snow EVERY year, you're probably in the Upper South...the upper regions of the Deep South (northern portions of MS, AL, GA, southern AR) may see an inch of snow on average once every 3-4 years, while areas further south can go 10-20 years without one single snowflake.
Anyway, that's my 2 cents.
I agree with your assessment about Missouri. Having lived here my whole life, I can say without bias that Missouri is definitely more of a Midwestern state than a Southern one, and should be classified as the Midwest. In Missouri, the only towns that serve sweet tea in virtually every restaurant are located in the extreme Southern parts of the state (Joplin, Springfield, Sikeston, Poplar Bluff, etc..). in fact, my dad said that when he grew up in Joplin, there was no sweet tea there at all. So it's only been there as of recently.
My way of distinguishing the Upper South from the Deep South is determining which states immediately seceded from the Union (Deep South) and which did not immediately secede, with the exception of Kentucky, which I call the Upper South because while it was sympathetic to both sides, it ultimately joined the Confederacy in the end. The same thing applies to West Virginia, of which 2/3 supported the Confederacy while it also sympathized with the North. The Upper South (states which ultimately but more reluctantly than the Deep South supported the Confederacy by a majority) is Virginia, North Carolina, Tennessee, Kentucky, West Virginia, and Arkansas. Kentucky did not support the Confederacy during the war but more or less "joined it" after the war ended, and the majority of West Virginia supported the Confederacy..the Unionists of West Virginia resided mainly in the Northern Panhandle.
Well despite what alot of you think, Md is the south. I'm from North Baltimore, born and raised and Baltimore is a southern city, with eastcoast influences of course. Maryland is mainly (not fully) southern in culture and is a rural state with its primary source of income being agriculture. We are sub-tropical humid climate also. Everything that makes the south, the south.. we have also. Md is not much different than VA if I must compare. ALot of difference southern accents here also.
What really "grinds my gears" is that some people from the Deep South call people from the Upper South (Kentucky, West Virginia, Virginia, etc.) Yankees.
I lived in Georgia for 5 years and nobody called me one. But if someone would, I probably would have punched them.
One difference that I use in deciding what is Upper and Lower South is the percentage of blacks in rural areas. The number is much smaller in the Upper compared to Lower South. This is largely a function of topography with the Upper South being upper as much in terms of topography than location. There are two main parts of it in the Appalacians and Ozarks with the Cumberland/Tennessee River valley being similar in this regard. While the Lower South being mostly the Coastal Plains and some Piedmont. (Though the Piedmont is becoming now a New South) There is also a large bulge of Lower South aspects going up the Mississippi River due to various factors that stem from topography.
Well despite what alot of you think, Md is the south. I'm from North Baltimore, born and raised and Baltimore is a southern city, with eastcoast influences of course. Maryland is mainly (not fully) southern in culture and is a rural state with its primary source of income being agriculture. We are sub-tropical humid climate also. Everything that makes the south, the south.. we have also. Md is not much different than VA if I must compare. ALot of difference southern accents here also.
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South Florida is Southern
