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Honestly i was born and raised in stl and over the last 20 years i have seen the economy in stl decline drastically. Companies keep moving away and it is increasingly hard to get good jobs. Evryone talks about leisure culture etc, but after u reach 40 a lot of people goto work come home goto sleep and then the next day the same thing so in the long run isnt the economy of the area most important? I keep hearing how stl is being revitalized but that is spin for attempting to stop and reverse decline and stl is in economic decline. People dont move to stl unless their job forces them to or they grew up there, but Denver attracts people. I want to stay n stl but the wife wants Denver. The economy in stl and the lack of quality jobs is worrying. I found this thread bc i was searching for info as i have to decide Denver vs stl soon
Last edited by Michaelcorleone99; 08-05-2015 at 07:48 AM..
Honestly i was born and raised in stl and over the last 20 years i have seen the economy in stl decline drastically. Companies keep moving away and it is increasingly hard to get good jobs. Evryone talks about leisure culture etc, but after u reach 40 a lot of people goto work come home goto sleep and then the next day the same thing so in the long run isnt the economy of the area most important? I keep hearing how stl is being revitalized but that is spin for attempting to stop and reverse decline and stl is in economic decline. People dont move to stl unless their job forces them to or they grew up there, but Denver attracts people. I want to stay n stl but the wife wants Denver. The economy in stl and the lack of quality jobs is worrying. I found this thread bc i was searching for info as i have to decide Denver vs stl soon
Oh really... so St. Louis's economy is so much larger than 20 years ago why exactly?
Holy old thread Batman. I live in Denver and have visited St. Louis a handful of times.
Would love to watch a Cards game at Busch and actually make it to the top of the Arch, but as far as living there? I'll pass. Too humid, not enough variation in the topography, and I'm not a fan of Provel cheese.
Oh really... so St. Louis's economy is so much larger than 20 years ago why exactly?
20 years ago, St. Louis was top 10 in having F500 headquarters in town.....
Southwestern Bell left,
May company is gone,
AB is a shell of itself and thousands have lost jobs there,
Purina was bought though it is stable,
McDonnel Douglas was bought and thousands have lost jobs there,
General Dynamics left town,
Sigma Aldrich just got bought
Chrysler plant closed
Carls Jr/Hardees is in the process of leaving,
Mallinckrodt and its spin offs are getting gobbled up
The airport lost hub status which really hurt the marketability of the city to F500
The city is the last major city to not have Uber
The Coal companies are either in bankruptcy or about to be in bankruptcy
And I am sure i am missing others.
Due to pension obligations the City of St. Louis isn't on sound financial footing and the next 15-20 years will be interesting budget wise.......15 years behind Detroit? The Hancock Amendment was effectively side stepped by adding a "trash" bill onto the water bill, even though anyone working or living in the City of St. Louis have to already pay a 1% city income tax....those pensions aren't going anywhere....and that 1% City Tax makes the place attractive to business.
Besides Detroit what other US City has gotten worse PR the last few years?
Come on man......
if you cannot see a trend of good jobs and/or companies leaving St. Louis over the last 20 years you are blind, but I don't want to get into an argument with one of the die hard, "I love St. Louis people" I have spent 30 years here and the secular economic decline is self evident, if you want to parse statistics to bolster your point that Stl rocks, go ahead. If you think StL is growing like gangbusters, just goto the airport, if you want to see the economic vitality of a city goto its airport, Stl's airport is depressing. But despite all these things I am hesitant to leave as my family is here, but the wife is insisting on Denver......
20 years ago, St. Louis was top 10 in having F500 headquarters in town.....
Southwestern Bell left,
May company is gone,
AB is a shell of itself and thousands have lost jobs there,
Purina was bought though it is stable,
McDonnel Douglas was bought and thousands have lost jobs there,
General Dynamics left town,
Sigma Aldrich just got bought
Chrysler plant closed
Carls Jr/Hardees is in the process of leaving,
Mallinckrodt and its spin offs are getting gobbled up
The airport lost hub status which really hurt the marketability of the city to F500
The city is the last major city to not have Uber
The Coal companies are either in bankruptcy or about to be in bankruptcy
And I am sure i am missing others.
Due to pension obligations the City of St. Louis isn't on sound financial footing and the next 15-20 years will be interesting budget wise.......15 years behind Detroit? The Hancock Amendment was effectively side stepped by adding a "trash" bill onto the water bill, even though anyone working or living in the City of St. Louis have to already pay a 1% city income tax....those pensions aren't going anywhere....and that 1% City Tax makes the place attractive to business.
Besides Detroit what other US City has gotten worse PR the last few years?
Come on man......
if you cannot see a trend of good jobs and/or companies leaving St. Louis over the last 20 years you are blind, but I don't want to get into an argument with one of the die hard, "I love St. Louis people" I have spent 30 years here and the secular economic decline is self evident, if you want to parse statistics to bolster your point that Stl rocks, go ahead. If you think StL is growing like gangbusters, just goto the airport, if you want to see the economic vitality of a city goto its airport, Stl's airport is depressing. But despite all these things I am hesitant to leave as my family is here, but the wife is insisting on Denver......
Any constructive thoughts and not just people trying to be argumentative and/or grandstanding regarding Stl vs Denver?
Lol, ok buddy, whatever you say... When all else fails just paint the other person who you've never met and who didn't say anything extreme as a blind extremist to pretend like you win... It sure is a nice argument when you make up things the other person didn't say... I also lived there for decades, I know what companies left (there are still 9 F500 companies btw), plants that closed, and the loss of hub status (although Lambert has regained most all of the lost direct routes, it really just needs a direct flight to Europe again which they're supposedly working on now. I'd say Lambert actually has done way better than most old legacy hubs, and it's not nearly as depressing as a lot of other airports I travel to). Unlike you apparently, I also know what is new/companies that have expanded: the tech scene that is there didn't really exist before, either were all the start-ups, or the cortex research district, the plant science boom, etc. The city isn't on secure financial footing? Tell that to their good bond rating. The economy of St. Louis is bigger than it was 20 years ago, this is a fact, things like gdp are not just obscure data points.
I like St. Louis a bit more, mainly because of the architecture. Seriously. I think St. Louis has incredible architecture in seemingly all forms, and with great examples, too. Plus, the people there dont put off a snobby vibe like they do in Seattle. The best thing about St. Louis? No Sounders fans anywhere in sight!
I just revisited Denver after 15 years. It's a lot busy, dirtier and overall larger than it was. The downtown is nice and very active. Cheery Creek is nice. Some of the neighborhoods are nice. A lot of areas are so-so or even run down. However certain areas have a nice young vibrant feel. It is also more expensive. Food are drinks are substantially more expensive in Denver. Traffic is much worse due to street design. What's up with both numbered avenues and streets??
Saint Louis certainly has it's issues but overall I like the way the city and inner western suburbs feel and look.
The architecture is way better and more varied. The institutions -zoo, museums, library- are better and free. May not sound like a big deal if you don't go but it's a nice perk. Music scene is good. Art scene is good. Culture and sports are good. And all are easily assessable. I'm sure Denver has that too.
Saint Louis could use improvements but I think I'll stay and vote.
STL hands down. I'm a St. Louis native, but have lived in Denver for the past two years and am not a fan.
Weather - Slight edge to Denver but the aridness really affects my skin after living in humidity for so long
Nightlife - Denver for safety reasons
Sports - STL (If you prefer NFL over MLB/NHL you may disagree. Beyond that, I thought the Broncos fans were pretty rude last time I was there)
Location - STL. I love that I can get to several other cities in a matter of a few hours. In Denver, you better be ready to pay for a flight (and have an hour long drive to the airport in the middle of nowhere)
Career - Tie. In my industry, I think I could find more jobs in STL. However, if you're in tech, Denver's your place apparently.
Food - STL. Denver's food scene is growing rapidly, but for a smaller city, STL wins. I crave toasted raviolis and ted drewes!
Attractions - STL. Zoo - Free. Art Museum - Free. Plenty others. Meramec Caverns down the road. I am not a big outdoorsy person so the mountains don't really appeal to me. Even if they did, I don't think I'd want to sit in traffic for 6 hours every weekend.
Traffic - STL. Denver's traffic is the worst I've ever experienced and I've lived in 5 different cities/states. No thank you.
STL hands down. I'm a St. Louis native, but have lived in Denver for the past two years and am not a fan.
Weather - Slight edge to Denver but the aridness really affects my skin after living in humidity for so long
Nightlife - Denver for safety reasons
Sports - STL (If you prefer NFL over MLB/NHL you may disagree. Beyond that, I thought the Broncos fans were pretty rude last time I was there)
Location - STL. I love that I can get to several other cities in a matter of a few hours. In Denver, you better be ready to pay for a flight (and have an hour long drive to the airport in the middle of nowhere)
Career - Tie. In my industry, I think I could find more jobs in STL. However, if you're in tech, Denver's your place apparently.
Food - STL. Denver's food scene is growing rapidly, but for a smaller city, STL wins. I crave toasted raviolis and ted drewes!
Attractions - STL. Zoo - Free. Art Museum - Free. Plenty others. Meramec Caverns down the road. I am not a big outdoorsy person so the mountains don't really appeal to me. Even if they did, I don't think I'd want to sit in traffic for 6 hours every weekend.
Traffic - STL. Denver's traffic is the worst I've ever experienced and I've lived in 5 different cities/states. No thank you.
No mention of snowboarding? Thats a major thing for us we love to snowboard.
St. Louis' metro pop has literally only grown about 300k-400k since 1970. It hasn't an a vast economic expansion in many decades and still doesn't look like ones on the table anytime soon. Denver on the other hand is going under a pretty big economic expansion and it's growing at a decent clip, not sunbelt growth, but still good. It's healthy, both in pop. growth and in economic growth. It has a 21st century economy. Denver would be my choice.
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