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View Poll Results: Is SF's core more like Chi or Bos/Phil in terms of scale
More like Chicago 15 25.00%
More like Bos/Philly 45 75.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-13-2010, 08:43 AM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
24,839 posts, read 31,261,547 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmac9wr View Post
Ok, you present the point much better than Rainrock does. But even then, I tend to disagree. Neighborhoods like the Tenderloin are right in the center of San Francisco. Chinatown in Boston is basically attached to downtown, and while Downtown Crossing is surrounded by luxury developments, the retail in the area is populated by non-luxury stores.
Yes, the stretch of Market from Fifth to Van Ness that includes the Tenderloin is just pitiful. Drugees, hookers, crazy people, homeless etc. Right in the heart of the City.

This snob would love to blink his eyes like I dream of Jeannie and make a huge Times Square appear.(unfortunately in the last election SF voters decided against huge electronic signs that would transform that area into a west coast version of Times Square-albeit much smaller). Sometimes city people irk me so darn much.

But for the time being, its like Times Square in the early 80s, without the neon lights.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Lower East Side, Milwaukee, WI
2,950 posts, read 1,776,886 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
LOL...there's something wrong with rich people flocking to the center of the city?
There is if it forces out poor and middle class people.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:34 PM
rah
 
Location: San Francisco
3,097 posts, read 4,996,804 times
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^downtown SF has everyone though...rich, middle class, poor. It's all there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
His point was referring to downtown demographics. The downtown cores of cities such as San Francisco -- and increasingly Boston -- have become unaffordable outside of a cadre of highly affluent white-collar professionals. Middle-to-lower-middle class people have been pushed out due to high rates of gentrification. San Francisco has been particularly egregious on this front.
The bolded part seems to be a misconception people have about SF. Yes, the middle class has shrunk in SF. The lower class not quite so much, but even so the shrinkage hasn't been as huge as lots of out of towners like to make it out to be. There are STILL many middle class and poor people living in SF. And that includes downtown (Chinatown and the Tenderloin are both in downtown SF, and are two of the poorest hoods in the city in fact).

Quote:
Clearly there are "real" people in every city, but constantly these conversations of "vibrant" downtowns morph into contests of "which downtown has the most affluence/upscale boutiques," which is a fundamentally flawed. There is absolutely no relationship between urban vibrancy and affluence.
You can't fault a city if posters like to mostly post about the upscale aspects of it. Downtown San francisco has LOTS of cheap, "low class" stuff in addition to "affluent/upscale boutiques"...but what do you think SF posters are going to play up? The upscale shopping in downtown SF, or the strip clubs, liquor stores, boarded up store fronts, fast food places, and cheap clothing and electronics shops?
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gtownoe View Post
Is there a large indian presence in San Francisco proper? I'm not that familiar with SF but it seems like people keep naming suburbs.

I'm just looking at things from my perspective (as a black man) but it seems like John Starks was talking about the city of San Francisco. As if he was going to live in San Francisco proper there wouldn't be a large Indian presence.

FYI, I'm going to visit my Indian friend in NYC tommorow. Have learned so much about the culture through just having her as a friend.
He said he thought he was the only Indian person in Northern CA lol. And he cited Berkeley as where he went, not the City of SF. SF city proper does not have a huge Indian population itself (its somewhere around 1% or less), but then again it only counts for around 10% or so of the total population of the Bay Area, let alone the 50 counties that make up Northern CA. The majority of Indians live in and around the South Bay, while SF is in the West Bay. So even if he was limiting it to the City, which he wasn't, it would have been similar to someone from here walking around the South Bronx and saying they thought they were the only Chinese person in the Northeast.
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Old 01-13-2010, 05:30 PM
rah
 
Location: San Francisco
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^it's also funny because both SF and Berkeley have their somewhat significant Indian populations in certain parts, despite the majority of Indian people living in the South Bay. There are tons of Indian restaurants in both SF and Berkeley, and i could be crazy but i'm pretty sure they're mostly run by Indian people
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:34 PM
 
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I don't know where he got that ridiculous assertion that he felt like the only Indian in Northern Cali. When I lived in Alameda, I took BART into SF, and sometimes I would think to myself that I was the only one in a 10-car train that was not Indian.

Of course, I'm exaggerating. But sometimes at the very least some cars were more than half filled with Indians, especially the trains from Fremont.

I wish I would have taken a pic. It would have been awesome if I could show you guys.

Last edited by Rhymes with Best Coast; 01-13-2010 at 06:45 PM..
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Zurich, Switzerland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhymes with Best Coast View Post
I don't know where he got that ridiculous assertion that he felt like the only Indian in Northern Cali. When I lived in Alameda, I took BART into SF, and sometimes I would think to myself that I was the only one in a 10-car train that was not Indian.

Of course, I'm exaggerating. But sometimes at the very least some cars were more than half filled with Indians, especially the trains from Fremont.

I wish I would have taken a pic. I so want to show you guys.
John Starks shouldnt feel so bad, Im usually the only Tongan everywhere I go. LOL
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Old 01-13-2010, 06:47 PM
 
672 posts, read 927,603 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
John Starks shouldnt feel so bad, Im usually the only Tongan everywhere I go. LOL
Just wanted to mention that because the comment was so far from reality in my experience with the East Bay. Not sure how long he was here for (a day?).

Was at Frys the other day, same situation. Not to push sterotypes, but there is a huge Indian presence here.
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:31 PM
 
Location: Vineland, NJ area
5,967 posts, read 3,410,695 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caymon83 View Post
I am asking in terms of 3 categories:
1) amenities: retail/restaurants/nightlife/theater/museums,
2) overall vibrancy/ street level activity.
3) overall built environment

I know SF is a far smaller city than Chicago overall, but I am asking about its core areas: DT and the dense mixed use neighborhoods surrounding it.

Would you consider the size/scale to be closer to Chicago or rather a smaller city center (i.e. Philly/Bos)?



I have heard opinions going both ways on this.
Why are you lumping Philly and Boston together as if their downtowns are the same. If anything, Philadephia and Chicago would be more similar in terms of downtown!
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Old 01-14-2010, 07:56 AM
 
Location: NYC
457 posts, read 565,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwillyfromphilly View Post
Why are you lumping Philly and Boston together as if their downtowns are the same. If anything, Philadephia and Chicago would be more similar in terms of downtown!
I see what you are saying to some extent. Philly has a more of the "big city" canyon feel than Boston. But, that area is relativitly small and it quickly gives way to 2/3 story rowhouse neighborhoods.

While, Boston dosen't have the canyons, it is vibrant over a wider area. The city has tons of dense mid rise areas that Philly doesn't have (Fenway, North End, Beacon Hill, Back Bay).

Chicago's DT, by contrast, is huge and vastly larger than either of these cities. If you put someone who didn't know anything about the respective populations, they would easily be able to tell that Chicago is bigger.

I don't think it is as clear cut between Bos and Philly.

Of course, it is not a perfect match. Boston and Philly's DTs are organized a little differently. But, they seemed roughly similar in terms of overall size and vibrancy.




Bos/Philly
DTX/ Market East
Fin Dis/ Market West
Chinatown/Chinatown
South End/ Queen Village
Back Bay/ Rittenhouse
Beacon Hill/Soc Hill
?????/Old city (maybe Fort Point or Bullfinch in 10 years)
North End/??? (South Philly has the Italian aspect, but not the density)
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