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I think, generally speaking (I know there are exceptions...not trying to go into that), that urban areas are largely Democrat, while suburban areas tend to be Republican. For example, Dallas (as has been discussed at length in other threads here) is majority Democrat, but the suburbs of Dallas are majority Republican.
I agree with this statement and as I heard said before, I think Miamiman once said... Phoenix is "unapologetically suburban". As in, the entire city with the exception of the central core that is small in comparison to the outlying suburbs. There is a high priority here of getting married young and starting a family.
Many are in rush to pick out their cookie cutter home so they can get a jump start on decorating it with all the crap you can find at Ashleigh's, Crate & Barrel or Robb & Stucky's. I got all that junk myself and its not all its cracked up to be.
I'm not sure why the OP is asking any questions since he seems to have it all figured out already. I can't for the life of me understand why someone young who has traveled so much and seems to have more of an adventurous spirit would settle on Phoenix. I doubt this place will cut it for someone like him for long once he moves here and lives and breathes it for himself.
There was more soul in Oklahoma City than Tucson and I mean that nicely. Oklahoma City and Tulsa both felt like huge metropolises compared to Tucson. When people compare Tucson and Phoenix, it's just a joke to me because Tucson isn't even in the competition. It's so much smaller and lacks so many basic amenities that other cities have..whether you are talking about the roads, hospitals, schools, the airport, entertainment amenities...not even close! Tucson was one of the most overrated experiences of my life. It's essentially a glorified University town. Phoenix gets mischaracterized for only have chains and no character. What I learned is that Phoenix has everything Tucson has and then the chains and soulless strip malls as well. It's just that Tucson has such little to offer that whatever it does have gets magnified. For example, Tucson doesn't really have a bigger arts scene but its gets labeled as such. Phoenix just has so many chains and strip malls too that people assume that's all it has but as anyone who knows the Phoenix area well, that is anything but the case. It's just that most people don't know Phoenixwell and assume it only has what they see from the freeway or their drives through towns. Tucson was lacking in a lot of basic things that most other cities have. First of all, their roads are terrible. I didn't think they had great restaurants which includes their non-chain restaurants. And to be honest, I saw plenty of strip malls and chains in Tucson so I don't get where all this "original" stuff is coming from.
Just like Denver, Kansas City, Memphis, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Portland, Atlanta, Charlotte, Indianapolis or any other mid-size city with half the population of Phoenix feel like metropolises compared to Phoenix. Mesa has more people than Pittsburgh, but you could never tell by looking at the skyline or any other "urban" factors.
Tucson has some of the best hospitals in the country, including University Medical Center and Tucson Medical Center. Both hospitals are consistently in top rankings on US News & World Reports lists, but you act like Tucson's hospitals fail to rival that of third-world Mexico.
Tucson is home to the K-12 Basis School, a public school, which was recently listed as the BEST high school in the United States. The school was featured not only in US News, but on CNN and Meet the Press. I don't know one school in the much larger Phoenix area that has met those standards. Tucson is also home to University High and Tucson High, each very highly regarded.
Tucson's roads are abhorrent, but to stay that this is any different that any other random metropolitan area is foolish. Los Angeles' freeways and surface streets are in TERRIBLE shape and many cities in the Midwest and Northeast have ridiculously large potholes. 66 percent of Arizonans live in Maricopa County, so Maricopa County gets the majority of state transportation dollars.
Lastly, if you think Tucson's restaurants are bad, you have obviously been eating at the wrong places. Mi Nidito, Rigo's, Poco and Mom's, and Guadalajara Grill are just a few of the amazing sit-down Mexican and New Mexican restaraunts that Tucson has. For Tucson's size, one thing that the city does not fail on is variety of good ethnic restaraunts, including Mexican.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
Lastly, I want to talk about this supposed "more liberal" feel that Tucson has. I certainly didn't feel that there. I saw more border patrol in Tucson than I ever did in Phoenix. I saw more cops setting up speed traps and pulling over people than I ever did in Phoenix, it reminded me of Texas in that manner. I saw more Rebel flag stickers and Nazi insignia on the back of trucks in Tucson than I ever did see in Phoenix including East Mesa.
Regardless of whether or not Tucson "feels" more liberal to you, the statistics says it is. Pima County was the only county in Arizona to vote against a constitutional ban on gay marriage, was one of the few counties to go for Obama, and was one of the few counties to go for Kerry back in 2004.
I understand how someone who has never lived in Tucson and just drives by on the freeway can't get a feel for Tucson's liberal environment. However, it takes a very short time here before you see that Democrats, for better or worse, have control of Tucson and Pima County. All but one of our city council members are Democrats and our mayor is a very liberal Republican. The number of pro-Obama or Arizona Democrat stickers here is quite significant.
Lastly, you probably see more border patrol because Tucson is closer to the border. Thus we are still within walking range of immigrants who trek through the desert. I have NEVER seen any Nazi insignia or Confederate-worshipping anything in Tucson. I have seen more of that in the Valley, especially in Mesa and the West Valley than I have ANYWHERE else in the country.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
I didn't see any diversity there outside of Hispanics and Native Americans. At least in Chandler and Ahwautukee, you can see Indians(India), Chinese, Vietnamese, Middle Eastern, Pacific Islander and other ethnicities regularly in the community, but I never saw anything like that in Tucson. Oh and African Americans...maybe the U of A basketball team but I NEVER saw Blacks anywhere in Tucson. So I don't really get this "Tucson is more diverse" than Phoenix mantra.
Midtown Tucson is home to a signficant population of foreign refugees. There are non-Meixcan minorities scattered all throughout the area. Tucson actually has historically African-American neighborhoods. South Park, Dunbar/Spring, home of several AME churches and the Dunbar School, Little Africa, near "A" Mountain, and the area near Grant/Alvernon all house high percentages of African-Americans. Our city manager is African-American, the director of Tucson's Urban League is also African-American. The comment about the only African-Americans in Tucson being players on the basketball team shows the overall stereotypical Phoenix mentality.
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Originally Posted by azriverfan.
I think it gets it's "Bohemian" reputation because it's more associated with its university than Phoenix is with its school. Both Phoenix and Tucson have universities but Tucson really has nothing else so it gets called a "university town." I think Tucson is more fiscally liberal than Phoenix but socially, I thought Tucson was a little too "hick" for me.
What "school" does Phoenix have? You mean the university in Tempe? Tucson is anything but a college town. It's too large for that title. Tucson has just attracted liberal people from all over the country. Some are affiliated with the university, many are not.
Tucson is more socially liberal than Phoenix. Fiscal differences between Tucson and Phoenix are negligible. Tucsonans, overall, just seem a lot more worldly, educated, and in tune with current events than Phoenicians.
"Tucson is home to the K-12 Basis School, a public school, which was recently listed as the BEST high school in the United States. The school was featured not only in US News, but on CNN and Meet the Press. I don't know one school in the much larger Phoenix area that has met those standards. Tucson is also home to University High and Tucson High, each very highly regarded."
TUSD is (IMHO) a horrible school district. I heard once it has the highest number of "failing" schools out of all the school districts in Arizona. Not sure if that is true or not, but I do remember hearing that.
But I believe the "best" high school mentioned above is in the Vail School District, is it not? The Vail School District is top-notch.
I don't really understand these comments about Phoenix lacking culture. I'm Indian and my culture is very well supported in the Phoenix community. There are 5 Hindu/Jain temples in the area. I played on a cricket team in a cricket league that featured 50 teams and over 300 players. I've seen Hindi/Bollywood films in theatres. There are more than 35 Indian restaurants in the valley and even some specialized chaat houses. I've attended the Miss India Arizona pageant and we have concerts, bhangra and dandia. There is a big Diwali celebration in November and a huge Garba ras. I have about 50 Indians friends who attend the university in Tucson and they always drive to Phoenix for cultural events and Indian related activities in general. They like the University of Arizona but they hate Tucson. Not one of them plan to reside in Tucson, they are either moving to Phoenix or elsewhere. They don't hate Tucson but they don't see it as a place they would choose to live in either. I've visited them on several occasions and I didn't think it was more liberal. I remember going out and we were the only non-whites in most places and got a lot of stares or stereotypical comments asking if we were Middle Eastern. I've never felt awkward going out in Phoenix but I did in Tucson. I know for someone like myself, Tucson is just not an option but I respect that everyone is different and is seeking different things so I'm sure Tucson fulfills those needs for them.
Just like Denver, Kansas City, Memphis, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Portland, Atlanta, Charlotte, Indianapolis or any other mid-size city with half the population of Phoenix feel like metropolises compared to Phoenix.
I work as a strategy consultant. Depending the project, I spend 3-6 months on average in various cities across the country. I'm based out of Phoenix. I've lived in Atlanta, Denver, Kansas City, Portland, Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Of those cities, Atlanta was the only one that felt bigger than Phoenix.
I work as a strategy consultant. Depending the project, I spend 3-6 months on average in various cities across the country. I'm based out of Phoenix. I've lived in Atlanta, Denver, Kansas City, Portland, Pittsburgh and Baltimore. Of those cities, Atlanta was the only one that felt bigger than Phoenix.
Makes sense, since it's a bigger metro than Phoenix.
Just like Denver, Kansas City, Memphis, Miami, Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, Pittsburgh, Portland, Atlanta, Charlotte, Indianapolis or any other mid-size city with half the population of Phoenix feel like metropolises compared to Phoenix. Mesa has more people than Pittsburgh, but you could never tell by looking at the skyline or any other "urban" factors.
It has nothing to do with Tucson's lack of a downtown. Tucson has nothing else either. Phoenix at least has areas developed outside of its downtown like Old Town Scottsdale, the Biltmore, Kierland Commons, San Tan Village, Westgate, downtown Tempe..I could go on. It's rather foolish to suggest that a city that doesn't have all of its high rises concentrated in one area is small
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Tucson has some of the best hospitals in the country, including University Medical Center and Tucson Medical Center. Both hospitals are consistently in top rankings on US News & World Reports lists, but you act like Tucson's hospitals fail to rival that of third-world Mexico.
TMC is a community hospital. It's not a good hospital and certainly not better than Mayo, Good Sam and St. Joes. In addition, we have several more hospitals that are much nicer than TMC in terms of facilities and equipment like Banner Estrella, Banner Gateway, and Mercy Gilbert. UMC is arguably the best hospital in the state because it's affiliated with U of A but that is the only nice hospital there.
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Tucson is home to the K-12 Basis School, a public school, which was recently listed as the BEST high school in the United States. The school was featured not only in US News, but on CNN and Meet the Press.
That's nice but it's the ONLY good school there and your entire highlight. There are far more nicer schools in the Phoenix area overall and much more choice and selection with regard to private schools. Even the prestigious country day school system chose to set up in Phoenix not Tucson
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Tucson's roads are abhorrent, but to stay that this is any different that any other random metropolitan area is foolish. Los Angeles' freeways and surface streets are in TERRIBLE shape and many cities in the Midwest and Northeast have ridiculously large potholes.
That is an incredibly weak argument because Tucson doesn't even have HIGHWAYS! You don't even have highways to have potholes in! You have to take 1 and 2 lane roads into the city with stoplights because your city planners didn't design 3 and 4 lane highways into the city. That is pathetic. I don't think I've ever been to a city that is over 200K that doesn't have highways within its city limits.
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Lastly, if you think Tucson's restaurants are bad, you have obviously been eating at the wrong places. Mi Nidito, Rigo's, Poco and Mom's, and Guadalajara Grill are just a few of the amazing sit-down Mexican and New Mexican restaraunts that Tucson has. For Tucson's size, one thing that the city does not fail on is variety of good ethnic restaraunts, including Mexican.
Compared to Phoenix, Tucson can't compete with regard to restaurants. And a lot of those places sound unique in name only but the quality of their food really tastes no different than Garcias. At least the mom and pop places in Phoenix are actually good otherwise they would close. Places like that in Tucson stay open because there is no competition. There have been 3 chefs from the Phoenix area to compete on Iron Chef. There are far more famous restaurants in the Phoenix area that have been featured on the Food Network than Tucson. Furthermore, there is a lack of range with regard to your restaurants. Yes, you have the standard Mexican restaurants that every small town has but you don't have a restaurant that can compete with DeSeo for example with regards to its cuisine and style. Phoenix has three culinary schools, one of which produced the winner of Top Chef. Does Tucson even have one culinary school?
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Regardless of whether or not Tucson "feels" more liberal to you, the statistics says it is.
Regardless of the voting trends, it doesn't specify why someone votes Republcan vs Democrat. I'm a Republican and as sociall liberal as they come. The difference is Phoenicians aren't a bunch of poor hippies that want the government to waste its money but with regard to social pocilies, we are pretty liberal. We are Goldwater Libertarians which means we are socially liberal.
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However, it takes a very short time here before you see that Democrats, for better or worse, have control of Tucson and Pima County. All but one of our city council members are Democrats and our mayor is a very liberal Republican. The number of pro-Obama or Arizona Democrat stickers here is quite significant.
And I can understand someone who doesn't know enough about Phoenix will not recognize that Tempe had an openly gay mayor. We have a far larger gay population than Tucson and is known to be one of the more gay friendly cities in the country. Yes, we have conservatives TOO thanks in large part to our Mormon population but Mormons are not Southern Baptists and they don't invite people to church and proselytize or publicly condemn people with large banners on the freeway
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Lastly, you probably see more border patrol because Tucson is closer to the border.
Yeah, Tucson sits right on the border...I forgot..good point. Let's see which city would have more of a right to post border patrol on its streets, the largest city in the Southwest that employs more and has drop houses or a much smaller city 100 miles south?
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I have NEVER seen any Nazi insignia or Confederate-worshipping anything in Tucson. I have seen more of that in the Valley, especially in Mesa and the West Valley than I have ANYWHERE else in the country.
The white trash element is far bigger in Tucson than Phoenix by far. The lower cost of living and less development is a breeding ground for white supremacist groups. Phoenix is a much wealthier, developed and diverse city which is unsettling for many of these white supremacist groups. I can't tell you how many patients I saw with skin head tattoos when I did heart and lung sounds. I've never seen anything like that in Phoenix.
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What "school" does Phoenix have? You mean the university in Tempe? Tucson is anything but a college town. It's too large for that title. Tucson has just attracted liberal people from all over the country. Some are affiliated with the university, many are not.
It's only large on paper like Mesa is large on paper. It really does look and feel like a glorified college town. There is really nothing else in that city. Even your major forms of entertainment are all related to the university like the Wildcats basketball team. That is the only ticket in town. Well okay, your football team did better this year so maybe that's another form of entertainment but for years, the only thing Tucson really had to brag about in terms of entertainment were the Arizona Wildcats.
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Tucson is more socially liberal than Phoenix. Fiscal differences between Tucson and Phoenix are negligible. Tucsonans, overall, just seem a lot more worldly, educated, and in tune with current events than Phoenicians.
Sorry but educated, worldly and wealthy individuals don't choose to live in Tucson over Phoenix. There is a reason Tuscon is not developed and why its' cost of living is far lower. There is a reason Tucson doesn't possess the upper class luxury ammenities that Phoenix has because there is not enough demand for those services in Tucson. Business and money have no prejudice, if you can afford to pay, it will go there. It speaks for itself. Yes, you have a lot of poor left wing hippies due to the culture but they are certainly not more worldly or educated.
I agree with this statement and as I heard said before, I think Miamiman once said... Phoenix is unapologetically suburban;. As in, the entire city with the exception of the central core that is small in comparison to the outlying suburbs. There is a high priority here of getting married young and starting a family. Many are in rush to pick out their cookie cutter home so they can get a jump start on decorating it with all the crap you can find at Ashleigh's, Crate & Barrel or Robb & Stucky's. I got all that junk myself and its not all its cracked up to be.
That is a stereotype. I've read a lot of those on this thread. I'm young and single and having a great time in Phoenix. We may not have high rises but there isn't anything that I haven't done here that I did in NY. We still have a great restaurant and bar scene. There are museums and pro sports. There are a ton of single people. I grew up in Dallas and one reason I didn't want to go back there after college is because people did tend to marry young and start families early there because church is really big there. That's not the case here. Phoenix' social scene reminds me a lot of Washing D.C. because you meet people from all over the country here just like in DC. Even in NY, a lot of the people are from the city or New Jersey and it wasn't easy to meet people. Phoenix like D.C. is a blast because you can go anywhere and make friends relatively quickly
TUSD is (IMHO) a horrible school district. I heard once it has the highest number of "failing" schools out of all the school districts in Arizona. Not sure if that is true or not, but I do remember hearing that.
But I believe the "best" high school mentioned above is in the Vail School District, is it not? The Vail School District is top-notch.
No, the schools I mentioned are ALL in TUSD.
Basis is on Broadway between Country Club and Alvernon. The lower school is near Speedway and Alvernon.
Basis, again, is a public school that was ranked the top high school public OR private in the country.
Are there terrible schools in TUSD? Absolutely. However, to claim that TUSD is just terrible overall is foolish. There are clearly good public schools in Tucson proper. Just don't stick your kid in any school and expect great results. The same can be said about any large school district.
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Thus we are still within walking range of immigrants who trek through the desert. I have NEVER seen any Nazi insignia or Confederate-worshipping anything in Tucson. I have seen more of that in the Valley, especially in Mesa and the West Valley than I have ANYWHERE else in the country. 
