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Old 01-27-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: SF Bay Area
10,129 posts, read 12,661,631 times
Reputation: 5285
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
All counties in SoCal voted for Obama [only Orange county among all urban counties voted Republican in California - including military-strong San Diego county]. What counties in California lean Republican besides farm counties in the Central valley? None! If they weren't voting Democratic in 10-15 yrs ago they certainly are now. There's nothing Republican-leaning in California [except aforementioned little counties w/ small populations & a few educated].
So one election now makes all these counties that have consistently voted for republican presidents "liberal"? Sorry but look at previous elections.

San Bernardino County has voted for a republican president 9 out of the last 13 elections.
San Bernardino County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Riverside County has voted republican 10 out of 13 prez elections
Riverside County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orange County has NEVER voted democrat since 1960.
San Diego County, 11 of the last 13 prez elections have gone red
San Diego County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ventura County has voted 8 of the last 13 prez elections republican, including Bush twice.
Ventura County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's been ONE YEAR since Obama has been president, do you honestly think ONE YEAR has completely changed the political climate in Southern CA?
Quote:
What's great or bad about California is that the populace have a direct vote in policies. Prop 13 would never be allowed in almost all other states. When Californian's vote "conservative" [ie death penalty\ gay marriage] it is a reflection of the people's opinion & right to have a say; that is a very liberal permission no state in the Northeast allows. It is also progressive that other states are following.
Sure the act of being able to vote like that may be liberal but not the outcome of many of the initiatives

Quote:
"Also many of our "green laws" were out of necessity b/c of pollution and not just b/c people here care about the environment". Is it a conservative thing to care for the environment? duh! Practice what you preach, mi hermano "Do some research . . ."
All I was saying is that not all of our green laws came out for some liberal stance on the environment but rather the need to clean up our air, water, etc...
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Old 01-27-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: Northridge, Los Angeles, CA
2,685 posts, read 3,538,848 times
Reputation: 2243
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Moderates don't make good copy. I'm not exactly a moderate, but I think we could use more moderation these days. Maybe start like a movement for balance and civility. "The Warm Milk Party" movement where everyone is relaxed and it's forbidden to call anyone a Nazi or Communist
That sounds like idea. Unfortunately, most people only respond to extremes and not moderation. Just look at the tenor of the Politics and Other Controversies Forum! People seriously live their lives to call each other names over things each of us individually have control over. I'm interested in politics, but not to the point of fanaticism.

Even look at this thread. There is already name-calling. Sigh...
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 2,797,836 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by sav858 View Post
So one election now makes all these counties that have consistently voted for republican presidents "liberal"? Sorry but look at previous elections.

San Bernardino County has voted for a republican president 9 out of the last 13 elections.
San Bernardino County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Riverside County has voted republican 10 out of 13 prez elections
Riverside County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Orange County has NEVER voted democrat since 1960.
San Diego County, 11 of the last 13 prez elections have gone red
San Diego County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ventura County has voted 8 of the last 13 prez elections republican, including Bush twice.
Ventura County, California - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's been ONE YEAR since Obama has been president, do you honestly think ONE YEAR has completely changed the political climate in Southern CA?
Sure the act of being able to vote like that may be liberal but not the outcome of many of the initiatives

All I was saying is that not all of our green laws came out for some liberal stance on the environment but rather the need to clean up our air, water, etc...
That's a very good example of awareness & commitment to the environment that reflects a "liberal" attitude [something no Eastern state embraced until decades after California]. Some Republicans accept the need to restrict pollution but vote against it because they want to make cheap money [isn't that immoral?].

I was on the Obama For President committee at school & we studied the entire election very close. All the SoCal counties [including Orange county] have been leaning Democratic for many elections as has all of California. Most of the state population is in SoCal; and Republicans continue to decline while Democrats increase year by year. It should be revealing that even tiny Imperial county has been voting Democratic for decades [and it is also a farm county]. Republicans have a lot to worry about in California, based on how young people vote. How do you explain how Los Angeles county [most populace county in California] vote overwhelmingly Democratic? How is LA different from the rest of the state? There is hardly any difference & a major reason Democrats are so powerful in California.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,859 posts, read 12,570,518 times
Reputation: 6434
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
The list goes on & on. Some states have followed California's lead but none have the array of liberal policies\ movements that California has.
So what you're saying is you have a set opinion and it's not up for discussion for you. I can respect that, but on reflection I think have to deal with one issue on your list before dropping it.

California may have "started the ball rolling" on the modern movement to end anti-miscegenation laws, but it wasn't even the first West Coast state to allow interracial marriage. Washington has allowed interracial marriage since 1868. In the 1930s if a Japanese-Californian wanted to marry a white Californian they either didn't do it or went to Washington. That was mentioned in the movie Come See the Paradise, I think. Japanese internment was largely a Californian matter and supported by California Attorney General Earl Warren (yes, the Warren Commission guy) and secular Democratic governor Culbert Olson. California even had a form of racial segregation of Asian students.

Still you have a right to hold to your view with gusto. That said there are other people here and some of us may want to discuss things or even theorize.

Last edited by Thomas R.; 01-27-2010 at 09:45 PM..
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:31 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,859 posts, read 12,570,518 times
Reputation: 6434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
That sounds like idea. Unfortunately, most people only respond to extremes and not moderation. Just look at the tenor of the Politics and Other Controversies Forum! People seriously live their lives to call each other names over things each of us individually have control over. I'm interested in politics, but not to the point of fanaticism.
True.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lifeshadower View Post
Even look at this thread. There is already name-calling. Sigh...
I think that's pretty much just one or two people. I think most of us are willing to discuss this in a pretty dispassionate manner.
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Old 01-27-2010, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 2,797,836 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
So what you're saying is you have a set opinion and it's not up for discussion for you. Got it.

However there are other people here and some of us may want to discuss things or even theorize.
Well, it is common knowledge that California leads the nation in shifting attitudes & accepting realities. That is a liberal thing. Conservatives don't want change & will resist it to the very end but eventually they lose out because change is something that we must accept. California sets the standard that the rest of the nation eventually follows. That's being progressive not conservative.
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Old 01-27-2010, 10:11 PM
 
Location: Winnetka, IL & Rolling Hills, CA
1,274 posts, read 2,615,699 times
Reputation: 532
Determining the most reliably Democratic and Republican counties doesn't necessarily have to do with vote percentages.

Democratic:

Cook County, IL
Hennepin County, MN
San Francisco City & County, CA
Mahattan County, NY
Middlesex County, MA

Republican:

Maricopa County, AZ
Orange County, CA
DuPage County, IL
Waukesha County, WI
Utah County, UT
Douglas County, CO
Tarrant County, TX
Morris County, NJ
Delaware County, OH
Hamilton County, IN
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:09 PM
 
1,645 posts, read 1,952,743 times
Reputation: 1283
Quote:
Originally Posted by californio sur View Post
You don't define "liberal." California is arguably the most "green" of any state, has the strictest air quality laws & commitment to the environment than anywhere in the U.S. California was the first to support stem-cell research & if the state had money it would also have universal health care by now since the governor supports it. How does Vermont, Connecticut & Massachusetts compare? Keep in mind that many Southern states were heavily Democratic for many decades but were in no way liberal. California's two senators have been Democratic for 3 decades, it's Democratic Congress people outnumber Republicans 3 to 1. Republicans in California hardly qualify as GOP compared to the way they vote & what they support [ie Schwarzenegger]. California was the first state to put same-sex marriage on the ballot & it lost by 4 points. It was the first to ok gay marriage twice in the state legislature. It was the first to ok marijuana use & to outlaw tobacco use indoors. Please point out how the other states you consider more liberal than California.
Didn't California vote for Reagan? You don't get much more conservative than that

In seriousness though, California is very liberal, but definately not the most liberal. I would say Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the country. How long have the Kennedy's basically owned that state? California has large minority populations (Hispanics and blacks) much unlike New England (especially northern New England), who may vote liberal on economic and national issues, but they are actually very socially conservative; hence, no gay marriage in California.

Vermont's an interesting case as it was once much more conservative-libertarian, but hippies from Massachusetts and New York basically moved in and began transforming the culture. It was the only state to vote against FDR (along with Maine), and even with that said, I would say modern Vermont is still much more liberal than California, as is Rhode Island, and I would go so far as to say even New York state is more reliable for the Democrats than California.
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:17 PM
 
Location: New England & The Maritimes
2,118 posts, read 2,240,190 times
Reputation: 1114
Quote:
Originally Posted by US-Traveller View Post
Determining the most reliably Democratic and Republican counties doesn't necessarily have to do with vote percentages.

Democratic:

Cook County, IL
Hennepin County, MN
San Francisco City & County, CA
New York County, NY
Middlesex County, MA

Republican:

Maricopa County, AZ
Orange County, CA
DuPage County, IL
Waukesha County, WI
Utah County, UT
Douglas County, CO
Tarrant County, TX
Morris County, NJ
Delaware County, OH
Hamilton County, IN

I wish bolded was more true...

(fixd Manhattan co.)
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Old 01-27-2010, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Pasadena
7,413 posts, read 2,797,836 times
Reputation: 1802
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReluctantGardenStater View Post
Didn't California vote for Reagan? You don't get much more conservative than that

In seriousness though, California is very liberal, but definately not the most liberal. I would say Massachusetts is the most liberal state in the country. How long have the Kennedy's basically owned that state? California has large minority populations (Hispanics and blacks) much unlike New England (especially northern New England), who may vote liberal on economic and national issues, but they are actually very socially conservative; hence, no gay marriage in California.

Vermont's an interesting case as it was once much more conservative-libertarian, but hippies from Massachusetts and New York basically moved in and began transforming the culture. It was the only state to vote against FDR (along with Maine), and even with that said, I would say modern Vermont is still much more liberal than California, as is Rhode Island, and I would go so far as to say even New York state is more reliable for the Democrats than California.
Thanks for the thoughtful response. Massachusetts certainly has a strong liberal bent [aside from the recent senate loss to a Republican]. I'm not sure why is it very liberal but maybe it has something to do with highly educated people. Perhaps someone from Massachusetts can enlighten us. What's interesting is that Massachusetts is so strongly Catholic [so is California] yet the Roman Catholic church is pretty conservative. Anyone have an opinion on this?

Vermont seems to be so isolated and small [not sure why it is so liberal esp over New York]. New York isn't liberal compared to either Massachusetts or Vermont. I don't entirely understand why New York is considered liberal by some except perhaps NYC is one reason. But even New York City elects Republican mayors unlike either San Francisco or Los Angeles. The NYPD still busts people for weed unlike anywhere in California. The New York legislature is strongly influenced by the Republican party unlike anything in Massachusetts or California.

You are correct, in my opinion, that the Latino numbers in California strongly push the state into the Democratic party. In Los Angeles there aren't any Republicans in part due to Latinos never voting Republican. That is strange since Latinos are strongly influenced by the Catholic church & tend not to have college educations. The Republican party has no influence among "minorities" in California which is a major problem & why the GOP continues to lose elections everywhere in California except a few counties. The old white conservatives in Orange county are being replaced with young Asian\ Latino\ Anglo Democrats & it is predicted that Orange county will go Democratic in this next election just like Las Vegas [and even Phoenix soon]. The biggest mistakes Republicans made is to accept racists since minorities will never vote Republican as a result.
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