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I don't "get" the fascination with SF. Seeing it once is enough. Theres no way I'd consider living there. Aside from the architecture, its basically a small town. I prefer ABQ. Austin wins this by a landslide.
I couldnt agree more! I've been to SF several times and I see it as basically an overpriced, overgrown tourist trap of a town and personally, I find it to be rather dull and SO over rated! It's rather expensive to live there and there's not a whole lot going on or much to do after dark. Not much to do there before dark either unless you have time to stand there and stare at landscape and look at the same art and architecture all day. I do understand the appeal and how someone who hasnt seen or been around that kinda stuff might find it "quaint" and "charming" though. I mean, if you've never been there, then sure, it's a nice place to visit, but to live there? I know several people that grew up there and pretty much all of them moved to ABQ or other cities long ago.
I've heard good things about Austin, but since I've never been there, I can't say anything good or bad about it
I'm currently in Santa Fe thinking of moving to Austin for business.
I lived in Albuquerque for four years, and Santa Fe vs. Albuquerque is no contest: Santa Fe wins. Santa Fe is known around the world as a center for art and culture; Albuquerque is where Bugs Bunny should have made a left turn.
Albuquerque is cheap and convenient, but it's not a "city" proper, it's more of a large suburb. Santa Fe is a small city, but it has an unmistakable identity. Albuquerque is made of strip malls and has two Costco warehouses. Santa Fe is 400 years old and has art galleries, museums, an opera house, and a great little farmer's market that grows huge in the spring. Restaurants in Albuquerque are cheap but disgusting; restaurants in Santa Fe are expensive but excellent.
Albuquerque is full of street drunks and meth heads and panhandlers. Santa Fe is full of tourists. Albuquerque has lots of friendly stoners, brother... and they do nothing with their lives. Santa Fe has smart and snooty people who think they are better than you-- but I actually find that stimulating.
As for Austin-- I'm interested in the lower cost of living, business-friendly environment, larger population, more entertainment choices, hot humid weather. Am I nuts?
Last edited by Pantagruel; 04-03-2013 at 06:43 PM..
I'm currently in Santa Fe thinking of moving to Austin for business.
I lived in Albuquerque for four years, and Santa Fe vs. Albuquerque is no contest: Santa Fe wins. Santa Fe is known around the world as a center for art and culture; Albuquerque is where Bugs Bunny should have made a left turn.
Albuquerque is cheap and convenient, but it's not a "city" proper, it's more of a large suburb. Santa Fe is a small city, but it has an unmistakable identity. Albuquerque is made of strip malls and has two Costco warehouses. Santa Fe is 400 years old and has art galleries, museums, an opera house, and a great little farmer's market that grows huge in the spring. Restaurants in Albuquerque are cheap but disgusting; restaurants in Santa Fe are expensive but excellent.
Albuquerque is full of street drunks and meth heads and panhandlers. Santa Fe is full of tourists. Albuquerque has lots of friendly stoners, brother... and they do nothing with their lives. Santa Fe has smart and snooty people who think they are better than you-- but I actually find that stimulating.
As for Austin-- I'm interested in the lower cost of living, business-friendly environment, larger population, more entertainment choices, hot humid weather. Am I nuts?
I'm currently in Santa Fe thinking of moving to Austin for business.
I lived in Albuquerque for four years, and Santa Fe vs. Albuquerque is no contest: Santa Fe wins. Santa Fe is known around the world as a center for art and culture; Albuquerque is where Bugs Bunny should have made a left turn.
Albuquerque is cheap and convenient, but it's not a "city" proper, it's more of a large suburb. Santa Fe is a small city, but it has an unmistakable identity. Albuquerque is made of strip malls and has two Costco warehouses. Santa Fe is 400 years old and has art galleries, museums, an opera house, and a great little farmer's market that grows huge in the spring. Restaurants in Albuquerque are cheap but disgusting; restaurants in Santa Fe are expensive but excellent.
Albuquerque is full of street drunks and meth heads and panhandlers. Santa Fe is full of tourists. Albuquerque has lots of friendly stoners, brother... and they do nothing with their lives. Santa Fe has smart and snooty people who think they are better than you-- but I actually find that stimulating.
Albuquerque is going to be 307 years old this month, so it has plenty of history of its own.
And contrary to what you say, Albuquerque is an actual city, with stuff to do for its citizens and tourists alike rather than just for its tourists. It is a nice place to raise a family and live a decent life, with a reasonable cost of living. It is not pricing out its longtime residents by all its newcomers, but rather life is getting better for its longtime residents in part because of the newcomers.
There's no question Albuquerque is the most popular place outsiders look to in New Mexico for opportunity and consider as a place to live rather than just as a place to visit (even though it actually is the most visited city in New Mexico, ahead of even Santa Fe).
Something must be good enough in Albuquerque to have made it by far the largest city in New Mexico.
That size is what has given it its status as the center of New Mexico's economy and as its economic engine. Because of this Albuquerque offers much more opportunity to its residents.
I'll take that over the supposedly better and certainly more expensive food in Santa Fe any day.
Albuquerque is going to be 307 years old this month, so it has plenty of history of its own.
All that is left of the old town is a square, a church, and a row of tourist shops around it. Everything else is just strip malls.
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Originally Posted by ABQalex
And contrary to what you say, Albuquerque is an actual city, with stuff to do for its citizens and tourists alike rather than just for its tourists. It is a nice place to raise a family and live a decent life, with a reasonable cost of living. It is not pricing out its longtime residents by all its newcomers, but rather life is getting better for its longtime residents in part because of the newcomers.
Of course it's a nice place to raise a family with reasonable cost of living, yes. Traffic is easy too. Like a suburb. For that purpose however, Rio Rancho is more reasonable and safer than Albuquerque.
Cities are something more than just a place to raise a family though. Cities have concentration, and culture, and action, are centers for something. Albuquerque is a vast spread of one-story buildings with no real center. A lot of stores close at 5pm (apparently only the unemployed shop there). A fake downtown doesn't make it a city. Sorry.
I lived in Nob Hill, and there's always a shot of it on TV shows and movies (always that shot of Il Vicino and the Guild), but in reality it's just 3 blocks of stores with not nearly enough nightlife.
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Originally Posted by ABQalex
There's no question Albuquerque is the most popular place outsiders look to in New Mexico for opportunity and consider as a place to live rather than just as a place to visit (even though it actually is the most visited city in New Mexico, ahead of even Santa Fe).
It's where the airport is located and it's on I-40 and I-25, anyone coming in and out of the state is going to have to go through it, regardless. It's a transportation hub.
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Originally Posted by ABQalex
Something must be good enough in Albuquerque to have made it by far the largest city in New Mexico.
"Something": it sits on the confluence of two interstate highways, it has plenty of room to expand, the winters are quite benevolent, and it's cheap to live there. So yes, it grows.
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Originally Posted by ABQalex
That size is what has given it its status as the center of New Mexico's economy and as its economic engine. Because of this Albuquerque offers much more opportunity to its residents.
Depends on what you define as "opportunity." There are definitely more jobs, yes, and more places to buy fast food, and there strip malls everywhere so you can buy stuff on your way home from work. Does that make it a great city? No. It's a large suburb.
The major employers are Kirtland AFB and UNM and the public schools and the hospitals. Intel, Sandia Labs, and technology are far behind. Film has incentives, but you never really know what's going to happen next year. The incentives are always part of the political football. Sony left. In Plain Sight was cancelled. Breaking Bad just wrapped its last season. Where this is going, nobody knows yet.
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Originally Posted by ABQalex
I'll take that over the supposedly better and certainly more expensive food in Santa Fe any day.
Restaurants in Santa Fe are way better. The farmer's market is way better. Be honest, now. Santa Fe is not big, it's 1/10th the size of ABQ, but it's a special place in the world, which is why it's more expensive-- there's more demand for it and less supply of it than other places.
Anyway the original question was Santa Fe vs. Austin, and ABQ somehow got thrown into the mix but ABQ can't really compete here, was my original point...
Last edited by Pantagruel; 04-04-2013 at 09:12 AM..
I wouldn't say it's impossible to compare cities... but it's impossible to compare these two cities. They literally have nothing in common.
Austin certainly isn't a bad city, but the way people talk it up is ridiculous. They think the sun rises and sets on 6th Street, when in reality most comparably-sized cities -- Nashville, Charlotte, etc. -- have something similar. Not to mention I found the scene in Austin to be very juvenile, and this is coming from a 29-year-old skirt chasing single male.
Beyond the nightlife, it didn't seem like there was a whole lot to do in Austin. The area is bereft of natural beauty, there's no ocean or significant mountain range nearby, plus the traffic is miserable.
I can't comment on Santa Fe as I've never been there; I just wanted to throw in my two cents on Austin as I'm getting sick of it popping up on seemingly every thread here.
Austin can certainly be overrated. I'm one of its biggest critics. But it is not bereft of natural beauty at all. The Texas hill country is right next door. Now, I know what you're thinking. The hills aren't that big compared to many other ranges. It's true, they aren't. But a drive through the hill country on a beautiful Saturday morning to get some barbecue in Llano or to spend some time in one of the many charming towns in the area is wonderful time spent.
They are two VERY different cities. Santa Fe is gorgeous, super touristy and very small, under 100 K in population. I love visiting but would be bored living there for any length of time. Austin is a typical sprawling sunbelt city with a cool central core. Santa Fe has a much better art/gallery scene and proximity to real mountains. Austin has WAY more of everything else.
All that is left of the old town is a square, a church, and a row of tourist shops around it.
How much of circa 1610 Santa Fe is still around? Not much. But that doesn't negate the fact that its history goes back that far, does it?
And how is the Plaza area in Santa Fe much different than Old Town? Replace the church with the Palace of the Governors and they are built in the same way and cater to the same type of people: tourists. The area around the Plaza in Santa Fe is for sure bigger than Old Town Albuquerque, but Old Town is hardly just a "row", it is about 6-8 blocks worth of stuff, not including the adjacent areas that usually are counted as Old Town such as the museums and the areas north of Mountain Road and the areas immediately west of Rio Grande and immediately south of Central.
And Old Town isn't the center of commerce in Albuquerque like the Plaza area (Downtown Santa Fe) is in Santa Fe. Albuquerque has numerous other centers of commerce, so of course Old Town won't be as big or as grand as the Plaza area in Santa Fe. Downtown Albuquerque used to be the main center of commerce for the city and it was much more grand and dense in its heyday than the Plaza area in Santa Fe is today. And Albuquerque was about half as big as Santa Fe is today in our downtown's heyday (the 1930s and 1940s).
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Of course it's a nice place to raise a family with reasonable cost of living, yes. Traffic is easy too. Like a suburb. For that purpose however, Rio Rancho is more reasonable and safer than Albuquerque.
Cities are something more than just a place to raise a family though. Cities have concentration, and culture, and action, are centers for something. Albuquerque is a vast spread of one-story buildings with no real center. A lot of stores close at 5pm (apparently only the unemployed shop there). A fake downtown doesn't make it a city. Sorry.
I lived in Nob Hill, and there's always a shot of it on TV shows and movies (always that shot of Il Vicino and the Guild), but in reality it's just 3 blocks of stores with not nearly enough nightlife.
Again, you are not being truthful when it comes to the size of things. Nob Hill officially stretches for a mile between Girard and Washington and from one to three blocks north and south of Central between those two streets. That is not "three blocks". Throw in the adjacent districts that are very similar to Nob Hill such as the area opposite UNM on Central and you have a larger area still.
Albuquerque is a big and diverse place with diverse types of neighborhoods. Quit lying and trying to paint the entire town with your worst characterizations. All those things that you say make a city are to be found in Albuquerque along with all those things that you say make a suburb, but let's be honest here and admit that the entire city isn't entirely made up of either extreme. It's a Western town and it was not big enough pre-WWII to have a very large area of dense neighborhoods. But it does alright when it comes to those things. The one thing it does have is plenty of choice in the kind of neighborhoods in which to live, everything from semi-rural to fairly urban.
Also, Albuquerque most certainly has a center: Central Avenue, our main street. It's our backbone and it offers a taste of everything Albuquerque offers along its route.
And Downtown fake? Please explain that one. Downtown often gets maligned for many things, but I've never heard "fake" being one. It's one of the 'realest' parts of Albuquerque. Santa Fe's downtown is the only one in New Mexico I've seen described as fake (quite often, actually), as an 'adobe Disneyland'.
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It's where the airport is located and it's on I-40 and I-25, anyone coming in and out of the state is going to have to go through it, regardless. It's a transportation hub.
Those numbers aren't counting the people who pass through on their way to Santa Fe or other parts of the state, but rather people that are visiting the city itself.
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"Something": it sits on the confluence of two interstate highways, it has plenty of room to expand, the winters are quite benevolent, and it's cheap to live there. So yes, it grows.
No, "something" like the Railroad that kicked off the modern era in Albuquerque in the 1880s. The railroad and the Santa Fe shops brought people here to work and it brought others seeking a better or more healthful life. World War II, which brought about the military and scientific sectors of Albuquerque as evidenced today by Kirtland Air Force Base and Sandia National Labs. Post-World War II, which brought about the baby boom and ushered in Albuquerque's explosive growth period at the end of the 1940s and into the 1950s and early 1960s. Then you have the recent era of high tech and spinoff industries from SNL. We shall see where the city goes from here, but there's no doubt it will continue to grow.
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Depends on what you define as "opportunity." There are definitely more jobs, yes, and more places to buy fast food, and there strip malls everywhere so you can buy stuff on your way home from work. Does that make it a great city? No. It's a large suburb.
I think everybody knows what opportunity is, it's the ability to get somewhere in life and achieve your dreams. A nice-looking and small 'real city' like Santa Fe does nothing in that regard for its longtime residents, as I noted. The newcomers most often have already made it in life and are seeking a nice place to live part time while they continue to make money elsewhere or to retire. They aren't looking to make their next fortune in Santa Fe.
Again, I'll take opportunity along with all those things you mention, any day.
And let's be realistic, Santa Fe has the Plaza and Canyon Road, but it also has plenty of strip malls and fast food places (you don't really think all the Living Wage workers in Santa Fe can afford to dine at all those excellent and expensive restaurants, do you?).
Quit being too rosy when it comes to Santa Fe and too harsh when it comes to Albuquerque.
Well Alex, if you're looking for "opportunity as a newcomer," then Austin has low unemployment, a low cost of living with no income taxes, lots of growing diversified industries, a business-friendly climate, a world-class university, a thriving music scene, established film and arts communities, friendly people, and better tacos than Albuquerque. Plus, Texas isn't Massachusetts, but it's ahead of New Mexico in education. So Austin beats Albuquerque by a million miles, and mentioning it here is besides the point.
The OP who asked about moving to Santa Fe already had everything in Austin that Albuquerque offers, and much more. Moving to Santa Fe is about moving to a different kind of environment altogether. But no, people had to pit ABQ vs. Santa Fe. Wrong move! (And yes, I shouldn't have refuted it, I should have just ignored it-- too late though.)
Me, I would never move back to Albuquerque from Santa Fe. Sorry! Too ugly and not great and not worth the hassle. Santa Fe is beautiful and cosmopolitan and famous for all the right reasons.
On the other hand, for REAL opportunities, for a dynamic and growing place, for a younger demographic, for entrepreneurship, for the stimulus of a competitive business environment, for variety, for promise, I am tempted by Austin. Austin sounds great!
Anyway, Austin vs. Santa Fe-- that was question here. Different environments altogether. And nothing to do with ABQ, which is not in the running for anything. But thanks for playing!
Last edited by Pantagruel; 04-04-2013 at 07:34 PM..
Too ugly and not great and not worth the hassle. Santa Fe is beautiful and cosmopolitan and famous for all the right reasons.
Anyway, Austin vs. Santa Fe-- that was question here. Different environments altogether. And nothing to do with ABQ, which is not in the running for anything. But thanks for playing!
I wasn't playing anything, I was refuting your gross misrepresentations, outright lies, and your absurd characterizations of Albuquerque. I'll continue to do so whenever I see fit, thank you.
Albuquerque is far from ugly, just like Santa Fe is far from cosmopolitan. Santa Fe is dominated by New Mexico's famous three cultures (Anglo, Hispanic and American Indian) with very little of other cultures represented. Albuquerque has more diversity than Santa Fe and thus more claim to being cosmopolitan. And Santa Fe is famous as a tourist destination. That's hardly the "right reason" when it comes to deciding where to move, wouldn't you say?
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