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When France clamed Louisiana, the French people wanted nothing to do with Louisiana (beyond popular belief). They couldn't get anyone to move over there so they sent the prisoners and hookers to over to work (bad idea.) That didn't work so they had to bribe and pay people to move to Louisiana (Germans, Sicilians, etc.)........................... Make a long strory short you have all of these different groups of European, Caribbean and Spanish people in a swamp surrounded by water with no common culture or language. The had to smash it together and invent a new deal which became the defacto culture. The term Creole came from Criollo which Spain (who really ran Louisiana, not France) gave to the People of Louisiana to distinguish them from what they considered "normal" people or everybody else. blah, blah, blaaaaaah.
I mean I can kind of see how that can relate to Dominicans in NY, where they both came from somewhere else and the culture deviated somewhere along the way into something new. The difference though is that Dominican New Yorkers just became another cultural group among many. Creole became the defacto culture and anything that came into the area assimilated into that, until the Americans came. The Americans were the first and probably only culture to not intergrate and decided to live seperate.
Most people tend to think that "Creole" refers to a single ethnic group of a certain mixed ancestry.
Chiming in for NJ -- I'd definitely place it in the top 5 - 10 in terms of uniqueness, just because it's an overall interesting place with tons of things, places, quirks, cultural nuances, lingo, etc that you can't find in other states.
Yes, I agree. All states do have some quirks, cultural nuances, etc. but NJ seems to have more than most. That's why "Weird NJ" was a much bigger hit than the "Weird [other state]" versions that came out later - NJ just has a lot more that's really weird (not in a bad way, at least not necessarily) and it's woven into the fabric of NJ culture unlike a lot of other states. Even our standing in history and national culture is a very distinct, unique one.
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Originally Posted by tommyc_37
^ Bergen County Johnny, you are referring to the fact that statistically, all of NJ's counties are technically within commuting/broadcasting distance to either NYC or Philadelphia, and hence all 21 counties are considered to be a part of the metropolitan region of either city (or both). But you and I both know that there are many, many rural areas of NJ. They are just still considered part of Philly or NYC's metropolitan region.
Absolutely. However, "rural" in NJ is still different from "rural" elsewhere, as we don't have anyplace that's really remote at all. That's why our "rural" areas are statistically in the metropolitan areas of NY and/or Philly. The most remote areas of NJ are still easily within 1.5 hours of either of those cities, and even closer to sprawling suburbs. It's kind of like the "farm" near my home in Bergen County. It's a legitimate farm, but compared to farms in most other states it's so tiny they wouldn't think of it as a real farm.
I agree but I don't think multiculturalism and diversity equates to a unique SINGULAR culture b/c it's simply not. All those different ethnicity's have their own culture, not one single common one.
I agree, and I think BPerone was stressing that part of it but I think I understood where he was coming from. The multiculturalism in NJ plays a bigger role behind NJ's unique homegrown culture than many, if not most, other states.
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Originally Posted by sav858
NJ packs a lot punch for such a small state with a lot of diversity but from an outsider's point of view, it is generally part of the whole northeast culture imo. Not saying it's the same as NY, SE PA, CT, etc...b/c it's not but the differences between those areas and NJ aren't exactly like night and day.
NJ is actually much more different from its neighbors than its neighbors are different from each other. Obviously, every state is unique to some degree. But NJ is truly a strangely unique state, even amongst the Northeastern states. NY and PA as states have a heavy Great Lakes influence. NJ is not part of New England and has little in common w/ NE. In the Mid-Atlantic, VA, MD, DE, and even PA are more thought of as Mid-Atlantic than NJ. NJ is usually just relegated to being "Northeast" despite being Mid-Atlantic (and this is NOT to say that you are doing this - you do seem to know, but I see from others that NJ is just called "Northeast" as opposed to other Northeastern states which are referred to as Mid-atlantic or New England).
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Originally Posted by sav858
I know most people in CA would probably have a tough time distinguishing between a NJ and NY accent, even though they are different probably.
Rightly so, and so would most of us. The northern NJ accent is basically the same as the regular NY (Brooklyn-based) accent (only the Bronx accent is noticeably different, really). The southern NJ accent is indistinguishable from the Philly accent. Our accent isn't really distinct to most outsiders, the few quirks are mostly noticed by us. But for the most part, even I can't tell the difference between the accents of my friend from Jersey City and my friend from Staten Island.
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Originally Posted by sav858
I think NJ does have a somewhat distinct culture but it doesn't really have much to do with all the different immigrants imo, but more of the homegrown type of stuff. I wasn't trying to say NJ is not unique in anyway, but it was mainly the whole diversity/multiculturalism = a unique singular culture I was arguing against.
It does stem from the immigrant/ethnic mix, but I agree that it's also heavily homegrown and the immigrant/ethnic mix is only a part of it. In any case, I agree with you that our diversity isn't equivalent to our "uniqueness".
I also think that NJ might not be seen as unique because people just aren't very familiar with our culture; if they are, they usually notice the uniqueness. New Orleans doesn't have that problem, nor does Hawaii, both are popular tourist destinations for people around the country.
A similar example is Philadelphia. Many people don't realize Philly has a very distinct, unique accent. I think it's because most people around the nation just aren't very familiar with the place. But they do have a very distinct, strong accent in Philly and around it (NJ, DE, PA, MD)... As a city they have a pretty unique culture, too, with their cheesesteaks and scrapple and I don't know what else.
NJ is actually much more different from its neighbors than its neighbors are different from each other. Obviously, every state is unique to some degree. But NJ is truly a strangely unique state, even amongst the Northeastern states. NY and PA as states have a heavy Great Lakes influence. NJ is not part of New England and has little in common w/ NE. In the Mid-Atlantic, VA, MD, DE, and even PA are more thought of as Mid-Atlantic than NJ. NJ is usually just relegated to being "Northeast" despite being Mid-Atlantic (and this is NOT to say that you are doing this - you do seem to know, but I see from others that NJ is just called "Northeast" as opposed to other Northeastern states which are referred to as Mid-atlantic or New England).
Bergen, everything you said here about the Mid-Atlantic and the Northeast could apply to New York State also. In fact everything that has been said about the diverse population to even the boardwalks could be said about New York State. In fact I am struck how similar that New Jersey is to New York, at least to Downstate New York.
You are actually right, on occasion I have seen Pennsylvania grouped with the Mid-Atlantic states and New Jersey is left out. But that would mean New York, which is further North, would be left out too! And I have also seen both New Jersey and Pennsylvania grouped with the Mid-Atlantic and only New York is left out.
In other words, New York is probably considered a little less Mid-Atlantic than New Jersey.
Of course New Jersey is one of the more unique states in the USA. But IMHO, the top three are HAWAII, ALASKA and TEXAS. After that you make an argument that New Jersey comes along somewhere, with stiff competition from Louisana, New Mexico, California, Utah etc..
This is an easy one: The Great State of Texas! Hell, we were our own republic--with our own Army & Navy, even--for nine whole years, from 1836-1845. And there are still more than a few Texans even today who only half-jokingly still want to secede from the Union. Texas is a state of mind, not just of geography. What other state connotes such a readily-recognized stereotype as does Texas? (Even if our incredible diversity of inhabitants renders said stereotype only partially accurate at times?) And no other state even comes close in providing the many entrys into our language, e.g. "As big as Texas" or referring to someone as "Tex." A whole culture has evolved from our state, along with a whole genre of movies (westerns) and also music. The Dallas Cowboys are referred to as "America's Team."
You know Vertmont was its own Republic too, right after the revolutionary war (don't forget they weren't one of the 13 colonies)
Hawai'i was its own Kingdom for a period too.
Illinois. Instead of a democracy we have a hereditary monarchy.
Excellent point.
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