Pittsburgh vs Cleveland (best, cost, state, better)

[DHurley23]

Which city is better?
What city has more things to do for a teenager?
What city has better sports?
What city has better stadia/ballparks/arenas?
What city has a better skyline?
What city is friendlier?
What city is more modern?
What city is more European?

Also,
If I support the Steelers can the Browns be my 2nd favorite team and vice versa without being hassled/ridiculed?
The same with the Pirates and Indians + Ohio State Buckeyes and Pitt Panthers?

[5Lakes]

Pretty close one here.

Which city is better?
Pittsburgh definitely has a nicer inner city, but if you consider the entire region Cleveland comes out more even or maybe slightly ahead depending on what you are looking for.

What city has more things to do for a teenager?
About the same

What city has better sports?
About the same. Cleveland has pro basketball and Pittsburgh pro hockey. Pittsburgh also has major college sports, so this may give Pittsburgh the edge.

What city has better stadia/ballparks/arenas?
About the same, but I do like how Cleveland's are all in the heart of downtown.

What city has a better skyline?
I would give the edge to Pittsburgh.

What city is friendlier?
About the same

What city is more modern?
About the same

What city is more European?
Well Pittsburgh has more compact, pedestrian friendly neighborhoods. In terms of attitude and history they are about the same.

Also,
If I support the Steelers can the Browns be my 2nd favorite team and vice versa without being hassled/ridiculed?
Absolutely not. These fan bases do not like each other and are long time rivals.

The same with the Pirates and Indians + Ohio State Buckeyes and Pitt Panthers?
This probably would not matter so much.

[JohnDBaumgardner]

I love the city of Pittsburgh, but my hometown is Cleveland. Being as completely "objective" as I possibly can be, I would most certainly give the leading edge to Cleveland on "all factors".
Cleveland is much larger ... better infrastructure, fantastic and world renowned museums and healthcare facilities, an enormous metro area with many, many spacious and beautiful suburban areas.
I like the topography of both cities. Cleveland has high ridges, valleys and gorges throughout, while
Pittsburgh rests in a "GORGEOUS" valley that is surrounded by more mountainous terrain.
I could reside comfortably in either of these two "fine" and renewed cities.

[StampedeCity]

Originally Posted by JohnDBaumgardner

I love the city of Pittsburgh, but my hometown is Cleveland. Being as completely "objective" as I possibly can be, I would most certainly give the leading edge to Cleveland on "all factors".
Cleveland is much larger ... better infrastructure, fantastic and world renowned museums and healthcare facilities, an enormous metro area with many, many spacious and beautiful suburban areas.
I like the topography of both cities. Cleveland has high ridges, valleys and gorges throughout, while
Pittsburgh rests in a "GORGEOUS" valley that is surrounded by more mountainous terrain.
I could reside comfortably in either of these two "fine" and renewed cities.

I disagree... but I do love Cleveland! I also like the Browns > Steelers

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by StampedeCity

I disagree... but I do love Cleveland! I also like the Browns > Steelers

I don't understand how you could disagree with this? Cleveland both feels bigger and has way more people.

Covering the same land area of Pittsburgh MSA, Northeast Ohio almost has a million more people. The city has about 100,000 more.

And in terms of infrastructure, Cleveland blows Pittsburgh out of the water, mostly since it was designed for twice as many people as it has today--hence "feeling bigger."

Overall, the think 5Lakes covered it pretty well.

Depending on your age, you can be happy either place.

[TelecasterBlues]

Pittsburgh is one of the most "European" cities in America IMHO...there's a ton of ethnic influences throughout the city, it even looks that way visually with it's large stock of old world architecture. There's a very strong German/Polish/Italian/Irish/Czech/etc influence over the city and the residents are usually very proud of that and quick to put their heritage on display. It's an interesting place, kind even looks like it would belong somewhere in the German foot hills. The people are very friendly, but not exactly outgoing. I guess you could say that Pittsburgh'ers are insular and keep to themselves...but if you crack the shell, they're very good people. Younger generations are night and day more social than older residents. As for being modern...maybe not so much in terms of look/feel/presence, but it's modern in terms of industry and economy. Bigger things are scheduled down the road in terms of modern housing developments and construction, things should start to pop up within the next year or two in particular. Neither Pittsburgh or Cleveland is really "modern" though.

It's the nation's biggest sports town between the Steelers/Penguins/Pirates(bleh..) and Pitt university. Definately going to be the city with the nicest and most well rounded collection of stadiums in just a few short months when the CONSOL Energy Center opens...combine that with MLB's best ballpark in PNC Park, Heinz Field, and the Peterson Events Center(Pitt), and that's basically as good as it can get for sports. People in Pittsburgh just may toss you off the Clemente Bridge if you were to wear a Browns hat to a Steelers game...Indians over Pirates would probably be ok for now

I'd give a resounding nod towards Pittsburgh...quite frankly, it's the better city of the two in terms of economic development and stability, it's much more scenic and has all the outdoor activities that you could possibly think of with the Appalachians and all of West Virginia to the south, and it's just much more interesting. It's kind of like you get a traditional "east coast" dense city core mixed with midwestern people, and an added bonus of a literal college town added to the east end of the city in Oakland. Pittsburgh is really the only "Rust Belt" city to be pulling steady and successfully reinventing itself, Cleveland isn't exactly at Detroit levels of blight and decay and surely isn't a bad place by any means, but it still has a lot of work to do.

and for skylines...no contest, Pittsburgh is easily one of the tops in the country and usually gets worldwide recognition: http://pittsburghskyline.com/

[WDCJoe]

Originally Posted by costello_musicman

I don't understand how you could disagree with this? Cleveland both feels bigger and has way more people.

Covering the same land area of Pittsburgh MSA, Northeast Ohio almost has a million more people. The city has about 100,000 more.

And in terms of infrastructure, Cleveland blows Pittsburgh out of the water, mostly since it was designed for twice as many people as it has today--hence "feeling bigger."

Overall, the think 5Lakes covered it pretty well.

Depending on your age, you can be happy either place.

Cleveland’s MSA land area is about half that of Pittsburgh’s, however Pittsburgh’s MSA is larger by about 200,000 people. I think you talking about comparing Cleveland’s CSA to Pittsburgh’s MSA (albeit an unfair comparison) then yes Cleveland’s CSA is larger by about 400,000 people, not a million. Comparing the two CSA’s one comes to a comparable number of Cleveland being larger.

My whole point here is that Cleveland is not overwhelmingly larger than Pittsburgh. There aren’t a million more people in the Cleveland area.

In closing, Pittsburgh was designed, infrastructure wise for nearly three times the current city population so one could argue that Pittsburgh feels larger as well. Cleveland and Pittsburgh alike boomed during the forties and fifties. Both cities have declined precipitously from their heydays leaving behind infrastructure, and social landmarks normally only seen in much larger cities. In my opinion they’re equally comparable, with neither claiming the true victor status.

[PhillytoCincy]

Originally Posted by TelecasterBlues

Pittsburgh is one of the most "European" cities in America IMHO...there's a ton of ethnic influences throughout the city, it even looks that way visually with it's large stock of old world architecture. There's a very strong German/Polish/Italian/Irish/Czech/etc influence over the city and the residents are usually very proud of that and quick to put their heritage on display. It's an interesting place, kind even looks like it would belong somewhere in the German foot hills. The people are very friendly, but not exactly outgoing. I guess you could say that Pittsburgh'ers are insular and keep to themselves...but if you crack the shell, they're very good people. Younger generations are night and day more social than older residents. As for being modern...maybe not so much in terms of look/feel/presence, but it's modern in terms of industry and economy. Bigger things are scheduled down the road in terms of modern housing developments and construction, things should start to pop up within the next year or two in particular. Neither Pittsburgh or Cleveland is really "modern" though.

It's the nation's biggest sports town between the Steelers/Penguins/Pirates(bleh..) and Pitt university. Definately going to be the city with the nicest and most well rounded collection of stadiums in just a few short months when the CONSOL Energy Center opens...combine that with MLB's best ballpark in PNC Park, Heinz Field, and the Peterson Events Center(Pitt), and that's basically as good as it can get for sports. People in Pittsburgh just may toss you off the Clemente Bridge if you were to wear a Browns hat to a Steelers game...Indians over Pirates would probably be ok for now

I'd give a resounding nod towards Pittsburgh...quite frankly, it's the better city of the two in terms of economic development and stability, it's much more scenic and has all the outdoor activities that you could possibly think of with the Appalachians and all of West Virginia to the south, and it's just much more interesting. It's kind of like you get a traditional "east coast" dense city core mixed with midwestern people, and an added bonus of a literal college town added to the east end of the city in Oakland. Pittsburgh is really the only "Rust Belt" city to be pulling steady and successfully reinventing itself, Cleveland isn't exactly at Detroit levels of blight and decay and surely isn't a bad place by any means, but it still has a lot of work to do.

and for skylines...no contest, Pittsburgh is easily one of the tops in the country and usually gets worldwide recognition: PittsburghSkyline.com - Original Photography from the Great City of Pittsburgh by Matt Robinson

Pittsburgh has a lot of work to do as well. Don't throw Cleveland under the bus because you are from Pittsburgh, and I know how the people from both cities view eachother. There is a rivalry there, that will continue on for many generations to come.

You perception of Cleveland is so underrated. More scenic??? Cleveland has one of the best metro park systems in the country. The Cuyahoga National Park is 30 minutes from Downtown Cleveland. The parks along the lakeshore are great, and you don't get too many skyline views of cities like you do from Edgewater Park out in Lakewood.

Case Western Reserve University is a top notch university that is consistantly ranked as one of the best urban colleges in the nation, and saw the fastest endowment increase of all colleges last year. Cleveland State University is under-going hundreds of millions in new school developments. From the nursing building, new student center, new student dorms, renovation of the 20 story Fenn Tower, and the new Rec Center.

I don't want to sound like I am working in public relations here, but here are a few things of what Cleveland has to offer:

-Second Largest performing arts district in the country after New York.
-Fastest growing downtown population in the country. Brookings Institute, growth rate of 32.2%
-First city to have it's airport linked by rapid transit to the Downtown.
-Over four billion dollars has been invested in downtown since 1999. With over a billion dollars in projects for 2010 alone. (Casino, Medical Mart and Convention Center, Flats East Bank, and all the new loft conversions in the Warehouse District, and the new aquarium.)
-One of the best orchestras in the world
-One of the best art museums in the world (currently undergoing a 300 millon dollar renovation)
-University Circle, home to Case Western, University Hospitals, and the world reknowed Cleveland Clinic
-One of the best urban markets in the country (Westside Market)
-New modern bus line (Heathline) that connects one to Downtown Cleveland, University Circle, and Inner Ring eastern suburbs in half the time that it use to take just a few years ago
-Home to a Federal Reserve Bank, one of the few cities in the country home to one.
-East Fourth Street: A pedestrian street lined with restaurants from all international destinations, and new restaurants opening up left and right.
-One of the best Little Italy's in the country. Not to mention other cool city neighborhoods like Coventry, Ohio City and Tremont.
-Like I stated earlier, a national park 30 minutes from Downtown Cleveland, and one of the best metro park systems in the country.

Cleveland, just like Pittsburgh, an underrated city. I know residents from either city will not hesitate to throw the other city under the bus. But heres the thing, both cities are rated among the most livable not only in the US, but North America.

But if you are going to compare Cleveland to Detroit, then I will compare Pittsburgh to Detroit. Problem is, both cities don't even come close to Detroit. Not trying to bash Detroit here, but their problems are so bad, that Detroit is like the Pittsburgh of the 1980s. Detroit is too dependant on one industry, so it is sheding jobs like there is no tommorow. Detroit=Auto Industry... Pittsburgh=Steel Industry.

Pittsburgh and Cleveland have re-invented themselves. Pittsburgh is home to a bustling biomedical, high tech, and banking economy, while Cleveland is home to a bustling medical based, banking, and up and coming bio tech economy. These industries are being shaped in large part thanks to the great universities these cities have to offer.

Both cities have unemployment rates below the national average metro unemployment rate. Cleveland and Pittsburgh are not too far from eachother, check the census bureau. Meanwhile, Detroit is double Pittsburgh and Cleveland's unemployment rate.

Cleveland and Pittsburgh have great light rail systems (something Detroit doesn't even have). Cleveland's is more extensive and easier to use. Cleveland's airport is still a hub, unlike Pittsburgh. And Pittsburgh's airport is not linked to its downtown via rail like Cleveland.

But if you ask me, both cities are two of the most UNDERRATED major cities in the nation. Similar history, boom and bust, but coming back as two cities that have something to prove, and are home to many large corporations. Diverse populations, with strong Eastern European roots. True sport cities, with great venues to go watch games.

I know what both cities have to offer, and to tell you the truth, its hard to pick. But as a resident of neither cities (originally from Philly), I can take in an honest opinion of both cities. I just don't think it is right for a resident of one city to under cut the other to make their's look better.

[PhillytoCincy]

Which city is better? Same
What city has more things to do for a teenager? Cleveland
What city has better sports? Pittsburgh
What city has better stadia/ballparks/arenas? Same
What city has a better skyline? Pittsburgh
What city is friendlier? Same
What city is more modern? Cleveland
What city is more European? Same

Cleveland's skyline is underrated though. Pittsburgh's gets a lot of deserved attention, it is beautiful. But I don't think one blows the other out of the water at all.

Cleveland Skyline Views:

Lakefront with Rock N Roll Hall of Fame:
http://www.aapa.info/Portals/0/Conve...nd_skyline.JPG

Cleveland Skyline from Edgewater Park:
http://ic2.pbase.com/o4/99/609799/1/...ParkSummer.jpg

Out on the Lake:
http://www.pride2.org/NewPrideSite/P...andSkyline.gif

Night view:
http://img2.photographersdirect.com/img/21621/wm/pd1348763.jpg (broken link)

More:
http://www.clevelandskyscrapers.com/...leskyline.html

[Urban_HillBilly]

^Lets be honest. I like Cleveland, but it's skyline is nothing like Pittsburgh. Nothing. It is spread out, and there is only a few large buildings. Pittsburgh's is all clustered together on the triangle, and is much more scenic. I agree with everything you said. Except for that.

It is true though the cities are a lot different then they have in common. Their former industrial past, boom and bust, historic European neighborhoods are large things that are similair.

However, the cities neighborhoods feel quite different. Pittsburgh has large eastern style rowhome neighborhoods in Appalachia. Cleveland has a lot more single family home housing. I drove all over Cleveland, and it feels nothing like Pittsburgh.

How is Cleveland more modern? Just curious. Pittsburgh has made great strides in green buildings (for instance the our Convention center that held the G-20), and transforming its rivers into parks and bike paths.