Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I was super excited about the Ballpark Village, until I visited P&L. There are still plenty of places to go before or after a game. I would just prefer something more organic. I dont have to wait at all, there are several restaurants opening all the time Downtown, that are not chains. Ballpark Village eventually will be built, but I fear for the independent businesses that make STL unique. KCMO, I always respected your posts until this thread, its been very childish. No offense, but you haven't been in STL in some time, and you don't even live in Missouri. Many of your posts about STL are very dated. The inner South Side of STL has literally been rebuilt, not a small task. Downtown West doesn't even look like the same place it did a few years back. I would post some pics of projects but I have to go play volleyball, downtown!
You seem to think P&L is all chains.. you also seem to ignore that its just blocks from the Crossroads district, which is all local and has seen a lot more attention because of P&L. P&L has not hurt KCs local business, it has helped it..
Local places in P&L- Midland Theater, Mainstreet Theater, Consentino's Market, Envolve Boutique, Garment District Boutique, Indie on Main, Lovebird, Makers Mark, Mema's Bakery, Polished Edge Jewelry, The Jones, The Mixx, Peachtree, Irezumi Body Art, Zafar....
Then there are some that are "chains" technically but have like 2-4 locations only: 801 Chophouse, Bristol Seafood, Frans Restaurant, Johnnys Tavern, and Ragland Road
So don't try and front like P&L district is filled with chains like Chili's and Red Lobster... cuz thats far from true... most of the chains there are dance clubs... and seriously who really cares if a dance club is a chain or not?? I've been to the chain ones, and then the local ones, and its not significantly different... both have nationally known and local DJs, both full of the same drunk people tryin to hook up... big deal??
LOL of course.. cuz STL has a big arch... durrr... thats is THE ONLY thing STL has going for its skyline.... a giant arch, the buildings have no significance, they are not unique looking in anyway, it doesn't visually look dense at all, and if you take the arch out of STL, well i'd say Des Moines has a much better looking skyline...
that is all STL can rely on, so no im not joking. Your downtown is small, dead the majority of times, and your skyline is recognizable cuz of an arch.... woopty doo...
10/10 people can recognize Hitler over pictures of Darwin, doesn't make Hitler the better person....
You have NO idea what you are talking about. Seriously, get out of KC for once!! Sorry, the arch is there to stay so there is no since of saying "what if the arch wasn't there"
Coming from someone who really loves kc, I think most imperial third parties would give the nod to Stl. Again, I really love KC! I love visiting l, I have friends there and I think downtown stl could use a lesson from kc.
However...
1) Stl has two downtowns. And two mini downtowns in between those two. It's just bigger...
2) Stl has such a rich history unparalleled by very few cities. Much of that history and beautiful architecure is still there. Kc's is good but not as good
3) We have a hockey team and one of the best franchises in all of sports
4) Stl has light rail. Sure kc has nice buses, but the metrolink is invaluble.
5) Stl has one of the best universities in the nation.
So that's my two cents. Of course I'm biased...I really love St. Louis. But as someone who loves all good cities, I give major props to KC - you guys have a lot of good things going on over there
I think most people don't realize that St. Louis does have more or less multiple "downtown" areas along an east-west axis. I am trying to think what other cities have a pattern of a linear area. I won't be suprised though if the city downtown looks quite a bit different in 10 years with new buildings, especially since the last 10-15 years development has focused on rehabing abandoned buildings and those are starting to be few in number. Or the multiple downtowns as it were start building towards each other. I don't know if anyone has a picture showing the continuous urban core line.
Having been to both cities, and echoing what many have already said, the lou is the slightly bigger and better city overall. But let us be real. KC has the better and bigger downtown! The Arch truly is the ONLY reason people recognize downtown st. louis! I really do feel that st. louis has a pitiful downtown even with the arch. Clayton ain't to shabby though!
Wow, why not just move the arch to Clayton? Jeez. The Clayton metro area?
You guys are acting like KC doesn't have secondary business centers as well.
Crown Center, Midtown and Plaza all within about 4 miles. Clayton is almost ten miles from downtown StL.
The plaza is has less office space than Clayton (it's more mixed use), but it does have a lot of office buildings and a sizeable workforce. It's definitely a business center as well as a residential district and it's much closer to downtown kc than Clayton is to Downtown StL. KC has office clusters between downtown and the plaza as well that would rival those in midtown stlouis.
My point is if you are going to make such big deal about clayton, then you can't just ignore areas in KC outside of Downtown as well.
This photo shows mostly residential, but the plaza has several million sq ft of office space too.
And although Stl beats KC hands down with universities located in the city (a huge plus IMO). You have to remember that Lawrence is only about 20 minutes from KC's suburbs and about 40 miles from downtown. It's the same distance that Lake St Louis is from downtown StL. It's very much a part of KC even though it's not technically even part of the KC MSA.
coming from the east coast and never having been to missouri before august 2007, kansas city was about what i expected: a pleasant midwestern city with some good barbecue. st. louis was a lot more than i expected, and it is loaded with all those intangibles that come with age. st. louis, unlike kansas city, has been a major city for over 200 years. that counts for something.
above all else, st. louis has an outstanding academic environment, especially for medicine and biotech. kansas city is getting better in these areas, but it won't ever match, let alone surpass, st. louis in this regard. washington university is an international magnet institution, drawing some of the best and brightest from around the globe. kansas city has nothing even close. this is only one category in which there is simply no meaningful comparison between these two cities. there are a few things kc does better; there are a lot more in stl's favor, though.
Considering that I took those photos of StL, I'm pretty sure I know what it looks like .
I think if you look at these pics of both KC and StL, both are quite impressive IMO and you wouldn't know neither one had such intense urban cores from the highways.
coming from the east coast and never having been to missouri before august 2007, kansas city was about what i expected: a pleasant midwestern city with some good barbecue. st. louis was a lot more than i expected, and it is loaded with all those intangibles that come with age. st. louis, unlike kansas city, has been a major city for over 200 years. that counts for something.
above all else, st. louis has an outstanding academic environment, especially for medicine and biotech. kansas city is getting better in these areas, but it won't ever match, let alone surpass, st. louis in this regard. washington university is an international magnet institution, drawing some of the best and brightest from around the globe. kansas city has nothing even close. this is only one category in which there is simply no meaningful comparison between these two cities. there are a few things kc does better; there are a lot more in stl's favor, though.
You realize your trying to prove a point using pictures that kcmo took right? (EDIT: He beat me to saying it.....)
And no, its not a demonstration in ignorance. Undeniable facts are:
Downtown KC
-More Active
-More residents
-Growing quicker
-Physically larger (area and height)
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
.
