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View Poll Results: Which is the most conservative Northeastern state?
Connecticut 6 4.03%
Maine 20 13.42%
Massachusetts 0 0%
New Hampshire 35 23.49%
New Jersey 7 4.70%
New York 2 1.34%
Pennsylvania 74 49.66%
Rhode Island 0 0%
Vermont 5 3.36%
Voters: 149. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-15-2014, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If you look at the link I posted, NH voters are ever so slightly less conservative on economic issues and much less conservative on social issues. New Hampshire has that strong libertarian streak going for it, which is a bit different from what most people think when they think of "conservatism" in the present day.
The New Hampshire state government was essentially totally Republican dominated until around ten years ago. Ironically the reason for the delayed shift compared the rest of New England was likely Massachusetts residents moving there - polls have shown transplants are more conservative than natives, and the vote base for Republicans in the state are the suburban towns just across from the MA state line that people commute to Boston from. Without the influence of these tax-evaders, the state would probably be somewhere between Maine and Vermont in terms of political swing today.

Regardless, I'd be liable to agree that Pennsylvania is more conservative overall than New Hampshire in terms of political attitudes. But I'm not sure that this translates into more conservative politics. I mean, I really dislike Tom Corbett, but out of the class of 2010 Republican governors he's been one of the most moderate. During the Tea Party heydey Republicans tried to get some crazy s*hit passed in New Hampshire and Maine, but have basically sat on their hands (except for helping frackers and cutting public education) in Pennsylvania.
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Old 05-15-2014, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Regardless, I'd be liable to agree that Pennsylvania is more conservative overall than New Hampshire in terms of political attitudes. But I'm not sure that this translates into more conservative politics. I mean, I really dislike Tom Corbett, but out of the class of 2010 Republican governors he's been one of the most moderate. During the Tea Party heydey Republicans tried to get some crazy s*hit passed in New Hampshire and Maine, but have basically sat on their hands (except for helping frackers and cutting public education) in Pennsylvania.
Philadelphia and the Lehigh Valley pretty much prevent that. While Pittsburgh has been a reliable Democratic stronghold, support for Ds there has softened in recent cycles, and the region doesn't produce the decisive margins for Ds that Philadelphia does.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:06 PM
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Location: Western Massachusetts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
If you look at the link I posted, NH voters are ever so slightly less conservative on economic issues and much less conservative on social issues. New Hampshire has that strong libertarian streak going for it, which is a bit different from what most people think when they think of "conservatism" in the present day.
New Hampshire has shifted leftward towards the Democratic Party as with the rest of New England (or the Republican Party drifted righward and New England didn't follow?) The counties facing the Connecticut River (marks the state border with Vermont) aren't that different from Vermont across the state border. It still would probably be the most conservative northern New England even if it weren't for conservative Massachusetts transplants. New Hampshire is the only one of the three that still has the death penalty on the books and has one person on death row. In contrast, the death penalty polls worse in Massachusetts than it does in the UK:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/world...l#post34099971
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:24 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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Originally Posted by eschaton View Post
Regardless, I'd be liable to agree that Pennsylvania is more conservative overall than New Hampshire in terms of political attitudes. But I'm not sure that this translates into more conservative politics. I mean, I really dislike Tom Corbett, but out of the class of 2010 Republican governors he's been one of the most moderate. During the Tea Party heydey Republicans tried to get some crazy s*hit passed in New Hampshire and Maine, but have basically sat on their hands (except for helping frackers and cutting public education) in Pennsylvania.
Exactly. Voting habits (D v. R) and political ideology (liberal v. conservative) are two different things. Heck, even the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean different things to different people.

When it comes down to views on individual issues, which I find much more telling, you will see that differences are not nearly as stark and there is much more nuance than voting patterns will ever indicate. Of course, no politician/political party would ever admit that.

The strict dichotomy in voting options is what creates this inaccurate sense that people are dramatically at odds.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
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Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Exactly. Voting habits (D v. R) and political ideology (liberal v. conservative) are two different things. Heck, even the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean different things to different people.
But you can assess political ideology by conducting surveys. It's not simply that PA has more Republican voters, but that those Republican voters (and PA voters in general) are more conservative than anywhere else in the Northeast.
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
But you can assess political ideology by conducting surveys. It's not simply that PA has more Republican voters, but that those Republican voters (and PA voters in general) are more conservative than anywhere else in the Northeast.
I understand what you're saying, but that can even be reduced further. Yes, you've cited political ideology surveys, but without seeing the methodology (especially if it is just a self-identification survey), it's hard to understand exactly how being "liberal" or "conservative" is determined.

That's why, again, issues are what matter most, because it provides more information about underlying beliefs/points-of-view, as opposed to aggregated, catch-all labels.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:12 PM
 
Location: Pittsburgh, PA (Morningside)
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Based upon self-identification surveys, black Americans are more conservative than Asian Americans. But this isn't reflected in actual voting behavior at all. Indeed, the relatively large proportion (30%-40%, IIRC) of blacks who call themselves conservative could be argued to artificially raise the conservative percentage in many states, particularly in the South.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Crooklyn, New York
31,860 posts, read 34,362,591 times
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Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
I understand what you're saying, but that can even be reduced further. Yes, you've cited political ideology surveys, but without seeing the methodology (especially if it is just a self-identification survey), it's hard to understand exactly how being "liberal" or "conservative" is determined.

That's why, again, issues are what matter most, because it provides more information about underlying beliefs/points-of-view, as opposed to aggregated, catch-all labels.
The Annenberg National Election Survey asks a number of questions about immigration, racial minorities, same sex marriage, the role of the federal government, gun control, abortion, etc. It doesn't ask people to simply identify as "conservative," "liberal" or "moderate" the way the Pew Survey does. We've gone over this before in a different thread.
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Old 05-15-2014, 03:52 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia
12,000 posts, read 12,842,421 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duderino View Post
Exactly. Voting habits (D v. R) and political ideology (liberal v. conservative) are two different things. Heck, even the terms "liberal" and "conservative" mean different things to different people.

When it comes down to views on individual issues, which I find much more telling, you will see that differences are not nearly as stark and there is much more nuance than voting patterns will ever indicate. Of course, no politician/political party would ever admit that.

The strict dichotomy in voting options is what creates this inaccurate sense that people are dramatically at odds.
Exactly! That false division is a Corporate Media contrivance used to distract people from real issues and keep them divided over non-sense.

Politicians, Banks/Corporations and the Media largely play for the same team; the people don't.
That is the main problem with our political system.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Boston Metrowest (via the Philly area)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BajanYankee View Post
The Annenberg National Election Survey asks a number of questions about immigration, racial minorities, same sex marriage, the role of the federal government, gun control, abortion, etc. It doesn't ask people to simply identify as "conservative," "liberal" or "moderate" the way the Pew Survey does. We've gone over this before in a different thread.
Indeed we have, and again, based on that survey, Pennsylvania is not particularly conservative with respect to the US, just with respect to the Northeast region.
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