U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 08-07-2010, 04:50 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,794 posts, read 3,512,257 times
Reputation: 705

Advertisements

I didn't know the casino got delayed?!?! Is this true?

Second off, this article is useless, and only repeates the Forbes article. They pick on Cleveland because of Lebron James and Sports, as well as weather. Cleveland has so much more to offer in cultural ammenities than most cities, even many twice its size. You can make fun of cities like Detroit for a failing economy, bad city decay, and St. Louis for crime, New Orleans, etc. I bet if Cleveland had a winning sports team, and two other teams that did decent in sports, holy crap would the image of this city change. Sports are such a huge outlook for cities, and how people base their opinions on them. Look at Pittsburgh. Cleveland has the same cultural ammenties, even better in some aspects, amazing medical based economies, and cities transforming themselves. To sit there and say it is not happening is pathetic. As well as great rapid transit systems. Problems are there, just like in EVERY MAJOR CITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

Cleveland needs to get rid of its backwards mayor Frank Jackson. This guy is an idiot who has done nothing. Cleveland already has so many awesome things going for it. University Circle is booming, soon downtown will be with the projects. I saw the new renderings for the mall/Convention Center site. Flats East Bank is close to getting its full funding, etc. I was suprised to read from a poster though that the casino is delayed????

Cleveland is one of the most underrated cities in this country, and gets picked on because it is an easy target. But the funny thing is, when people come here, that image is completely dumbfounded, and they are suprised by what they see. Then they leave with a better image. Cleveland needs a new mayor right away. Frank Jackson picks his nose and looks out his office towards the lakefront and watches the waves on Lake Erie, and doesn't speak to the public and let them know what is going on, and what his plans are.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-07-2010, 05:27 PM
 
142 posts, read 200,825 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
Oh, I agree 100%. Is there another(sustainable) way to build a city?
Hah, probably not. But to get those businesses here, we need to offer them some sort of incentives. Without those incentives, most won't come. That's what I hope Jackson & Co. realize - that we can't sit on our hands and expect businesses/people to flock here. We need to go on the offensive and get them here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Lakes View Post
Even if Cleveland attracts business it also has to get the new blood that comes with them to move into the city. If Cleveland attracts 20k more jobs downtown and all those workers move to Solon and Avon what good does that do the for city neighborhoods?
You're right, some of those workers moving to the outer burbs would be inevitable. But some would stay simply because they don't want a long commute to work/entertainment downtown.

If something like that happened, say 4k of those workers stay within city limits. The city would need to make sure those people went to a few areas. For example, get them to move to University Circle, Tremont, and Ohio City. They'll be able to help improve those cities, making them more appealing to businesses, suburbanites, new people moving to Cleveland, and so on. Once those cities are on the right track and jobs continue to come (which they likely will if the city is on the rise), you focus on two or three new neighborhoods.

If the new people spread themselves out, the turnaround would be harder. If they head to certain areas, the turnaround will be easier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavercreek33 View Post
I didn't know the casino got delayed?!?! Is this true?

Second off, this article is useless, and only repeates the Forbes article. They pick on Cleveland because of Lebron James and Sports, as well as weather. Cleveland has so much more to offer in cultural ammenities than most cities, even many twice its size. You can make fun of cities like Detroit for a failing economy, bad city decay, and St. Louis for crime, New Orleans, etc. I bet if Cleveland had a winning sports team, and two other teams that did decent in sports, holy crap would the image of this city change. Sports are such a huge outlook for cities, and how people base their opinions on them. Look at Pittsburgh. Cleveland has the same cultural ammenties, even better in some aspects, amazing medical based economies, and cities transforming themselves. To sit there and say it is not happening is pathetic. As well as great rapid transit systems. Problems are there, just like in EVERY MAJOR CITY IN THIS COUNTRY.

Cleveland needs to get rid of its backwards mayor Frank Jackson. This guy is an idiot who has done nothing. Cleveland already has so many awesome things going for it. University Circle is booming, soon downtown will be with the projects. I saw the new renderings for the mall/Convention Center site. Flats East Bank is close to getting its full funding, etc. I was suprised to read from a poster though that the casino is delayed????

Cleveland is one of the most underrated cities in this country, and gets picked on because it is an easy target. But the funny thing is, when people come here, that image is completely dumbfounded, and they are suprised by what they see. Then they leave with a better image. Cleveland needs a new mayor right away. Frank Jackson picks his nose and looks out his office towards the lakefront and watches the waves on Lake Erie, and doesn't speak to the public and let them know what is going on, and what his plans are.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. The casino delay is fairly old news, as it was reported back in May. But still, it was delayed a year until sometime in 2013. And that's still the projected opening date, they haven't broken ground yet so who really knows when it will open. There is a temporary casino opening next year (I believe?), but the casino itself - which is supposed to be the nicest of the 4 in Ohio - will be the one that attracts people here.

My biggest criticisms of Jackson are that he's not pro-business enough and he's not very strong on crime IMO. Him backing down when the race card was pulled by George Forbes over the Warehouse District problems was rather irritating too, but oh well.

Too bad getting rid of him is easier said than done.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,794 posts, read 3,512,257 times
Reputation: 705
Quote:
Originally Posted by Buckeyes440 View Post
Hah, probably not. But to get those businesses here, we need to offer them some sort of incentives. Without those incentives, most won't come. That's what I hope Jackson & Co. realize - that we can't sit on our hands and expect businesses/people to flock here. We need to go on the offensive and get them here.

You're right, some of those workers moving to the outer burbs would be inevitable. But some would stay simply because they don't want a long commute to work/entertainment downtown.

If something like that happened, say 4k of those workers stay within city limits. The city would need to make sure those people went to a few areas. For example, get them to move to University Circle, Tremont, and Ohio City. They'll be able to help improve those cities, making them more appealing to businesses, suburbanites, new people moving to Cleveland, and so on. Once those cities are on the right track and jobs continue to come (which they likely will if the city is on the rise), you focus on two or three new neighborhoods.

If the new people spread themselves out, the turnaround would be harder. If they head to certain areas, the turnaround will be easier.


Sorry, I should have been more clear. The casino delay is fairly old news, as it was reported back in May. But still, it was delayed a year until sometime in 2013. And that's still the projected opening date, they haven't broken ground yet so who really knows when it will open. There is a temporary casino opening next year (I believe?), but the casino itself - which is supposed to be the nicest of the 4 in Ohio - will be the one that attracts people here.

My biggest criticisms of Jackson are that he's not pro-business enough and he's not very strong on crime IMO. Him backing down when the race card was pulled by George Forbes over the Warehouse District problems was rather irritating too, but oh well.

Too bad getting rid of him is easier said than done.
Very true. Isn't the casino getting built across the river from Tower City? If memory serves me right. I really like that location, best location in my opinion.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 06:04 PM
 
142 posts, read 200,825 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeSoHood View Post
1. Half of the list is dumb, but for violent crime Cleveland metro is 15th out of 40 listed.
2. Yes it is, atleast compared to MOST US cities.
3. The so-called crappy east side suburbs are JOKES compared to the likes of West Palm Beach or North Las Vegas, etc..those are just examples. But You guys still don't understand crime is pretty concentrated here. See below.


Wrong. Cleveland's crime is NOT widespread. Have you lived outside of Cleveland, ever? Cleveland's crime is very concentrated compared to other cities. You want widespread? Just move south. I lived in Florida, and crime was rampant everywhere. You want sprawling crime? Considering living in Las
Vegas.

As someone who just moved to Cleveland a few years ago, I can't believe you think the crime here is widespread. Euclid is chump change compared to any really crime ridden city. There were some 18 homicides in 800,000 people in the suburban communities in Cuyahoga County. In a LOT of southern cities, there is MORE crime in the outside areas. Take Miami for instance, many of the communities outside have more crime -- heck Miami Dade county had more homicides than the city proper.

If you guys think that crime is spread out in Cleveland, then you should never leave the area, because you will be in a culture shock. What I just said isn't opinion, it's fact.
It's painfully obvious that the outer burbs with virtually no violent crime are absolutely carrying that ranking, though. It doesn't change the fact that Cleveland itself is very dangerous - the 7th most dangerous city with a pop. of at least 75k. While it's great that some of the burbs are extremely nice, the city itself being very dangerous is a big issue.

Take a look at the shootings in Cleveland from last year. Here's a SS I grabbed off spotcrime (not sure if they are 100% accurate, but it still demonstrates my point).


Like I said, it's pretty widespread out to places like University Heights, Shaker Heights, Beachwood, etc which are safe. Obviously this just shows one aspect of crime, but if the shootings look like that you can only imagine how the maps of assaults, robberies, etc would look. There are 214 shootings on the map, btw.

I'm saying that crime is spread out in Cleveland itself. Not talking about Avon Lake, or Beachwood, or any of those suburbs...just the city itself. That needs to be fixed. Like 5lakes said, there aren't enough areas in the inner-city that feel isolated from crime and few areas feel even somewhat safe. That needs to change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WeSoHood View Post
I'm not disagreeing with any of that.. but Clevelanders tend to view Ohio City and Tremont much more dangerous than it actually is.. heck, South Beach is within walking distance from some very dangerous areas.

For instance here were the first 3 months this year in South Beach

A gun shootout in the 16th/Collins garage, 1 dead, 2 shot
A stabbing on Collins near the W Hotel, 1 dead
A gun shootout between 2 cars on the MacArthur Bridge, 1 dead, 1 shot
A crazy man shooting wildly into the air near Tantra, 1 shot by police
A man shot to death on Ocean Drive at 14th St, 1 dead
A huge knife fight on 15th near Collins, 3 stabbed
A man stabbed to death on Washington Ave near 11th St, 1 dead


Yet, South Beach gets positive press because it's citizens don't always speak negatively about it. Crime is going to happen in the city..
I wouldn't necessarily say South Beach gets a ton of positive press. As a vacation destination, sure. But as a place to live? Eh, not so sure about that. Ohio City and Tremont are probably the safest inner-city areas here, but even they are not THAT safe.

I know the Eastside of Cleveland is bigger than South Beach, but here's a look at the serious crimes committed in the past week on the Eastside alone:

15yo shot when caught in gunfight between 2 groups of teens in the 2300 block of East 84th
Man dies after being shot in the 3100 block of East 79th
Man shot near East 74th & Superior
Three men shot in the 3500 block of Riverside
Body of man shot to death found in burning car on Ovington Ave
17yo shot by 15yo at Zelma George Recreation Center
Two men stabbed in the 11000 block of Notre Dame Avenue
Man shot near East 111th & Forest Avenue
Man shot near East 147th & Harvard Avenue
Man shot in face near East 152nd & Saranac Avenue

And that's not even including whatever mischief happens tonight, so it's not even a full week. AND it doesn't include shootings where nobody was hit, either. A laundry list of offenses like the one above is not normal for most big cities.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 06:26 PM
 
142 posts, read 200,825 times
Reputation: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beavercreek33 View Post
Very true. Isn't the casino getting built across the river from Tower City? If memory serves me right. I really like that location, best location in my opinion.
Actually, it's not across the river, it's right on the East side of the river.

I wish there were updated drawings though. None have been released since the initial one that was released almost a year ago. As I said above, the Cleveland casino is supposed to be the nicest of the four being built, so I'm pretty excited. Hopefully the groundbreaking is soon because even more delays would be more than a little worrisome.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 06:30 PM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,794 posts, read 3,512,257 times
Reputation: 705
http://media.cleveland.com/metro/pho...f001a032c6.jpg

That's a current one I think. Is this right behind Tower City? Sorry for all the questions, but I am curious.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 08:01 PM
 
1,158 posts, read 1,038,107 times
Reputation: 437
I'm from Pittsburgh but I love Cleveland as I personally know many others here in the Burgh do also.
Your downtown is fantastic looking and I wouldn't mind living in the Chagrin Falls area.
People I have met in Ohio have always been so nice and helpful. Long ago I got lost and pulled over to get my bearings and an Ohio cop stopped ,pointed me in the right direction and gave me a full size map to take with me!
IMO all the hype in the world doesn't necessarily help a city and it really hasn't helped Pittsburgh get people to move here.Even if you offer good paying job opportunities along with affordable cost of living,people will live where they have it in their minds that they want to be.
I always hear, "but it's too cold up there! "-But that doesn't stop people from moving to Minneapolis where the ave. January temp is 10 degrees. People are crazy!
I wouldn't worry about it. You have what YOU want Cleveland to be ( and that's the way I look at the Burgh) If other people don't like it-F... 'em!
I think Pittsburgh may have gotten a little more attention than Cleveland d/t a compare and contrast situation b/c Pittsburgh was such a smoggy, filthy, dirty mess in earlier days, with streetlights on at noon. Also the fact when the steelmills closed by the end of the '80s we lost 150,000 jobs. We really got are a....s kicked hard, so it was a real hard upward climb for our city,whereas Cleveland has sustained losses as well but not to that extreme. ( which I think that would be viewed as more positive for Cleveland.)
Anyway, yeah I think it helpful to have the right officials in place to help market a city. It definitely helps, but still doesn't always work to sway people to move into a city or region.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 11:33 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 3,189,798 times
Reputation: 1398
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5Lakes View Post
I pretty much agree with this, but your statement that "Most American cities have very few educated inhabitants under the age of 30 who aren't gay" is way off. Yes, cities attract gay people, but more so they generally attract people with no kids in general. Most educated people of means who live in Chicago (where I live) are definatly straght, white-collar professionals who don't yet have school age kids. There are also a good amount of empty nesters who have returned to the city, and yes some gays also.

The problem with Cleveland is that it has not yet been able to attract enough of the educated childless people demographic. In successful cities (by American standards) people move to the suburbs to raise their kids because they have to, not because they want to. In Cleveland even most single people without kids are not especially compelled to live in the city, and that needs to change. I understand that Lakewood and Cleveland Heights serve as places for urban living in Cleveland, but more of this is needed in city neighborhoods closer to downtown. Tremont, Ohio City, and Gordan Square are good areas to build off.

I remember being at a party in Chicago with one of of my friends from Cleveland who was in town visiting. At the party there were a bunch of people having a conversation about how they dreaded moving to the suburbs. My friend said "this is a conversation you would never hear in Cleveland." Very telling of the attitudes in Cleveland and how they view city vs. suburban life. Hopefully as Cleveland improves this attitude fades away.



Even if Cleveland attracts business it also has to get the new blood that comes with them to move into the city. If Cleveland attracts 20k more jobs downtown and all those workers move to Solon and Avon what good does that do the for city neighborhoods?

Cleveland has to also make sure it uses new money to make improvements that will attract developers to the city. Good planning has historically been a big weakness for Cleveland. Things like building around transit stops or parks need to happen. This will lead to organic neighborhood improvements that will positively impact the city in a holistic manner. Cleveland is actually doing some of this now, but not as fast as it should. It comes down to being pro-business and encouraging neighborhood development. Cleveland actually has a lot of amenities and it's cheap, so it has that going for it.
I know you don't want to hear this because Chicago is your point of reference, but outside of Chicago (and New York, Boston, Washington, D.C., and San Francisco), Cleveland is actually more in line with the national trend of suburbanization over the past half century. It's definitely worse in Cleveland, especially with the amount of decay that the central city has seen, but Cleveland isn't an oddball by any means. Whether it be Cleveland or elsewhere in the typical American city, I simply don't know if we'll ever see people, especially families, moving back into cities in droves. And I'm fairly certain that we'll never see the type of city living in Cleveland that you have in the other cities I mentioned above, so I don't think we should be looking at them as models.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-07-2010, 11:43 PM
 
2,615 posts, read 3,189,798 times
Reputation: 1398
By the way, I don't think AlaskaPat was trying to start a flame war.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-08-2010, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Blue Ash, Ohio (Cincinnati)
2,794 posts, read 3,512,257 times
Reputation: 705
Pat's a good member, don't worry about her, she has nothing but good intentions.
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top