U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 11-02-2010, 11:10 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
308 posts, read 348,476 times
Reputation: 99
Let's not delude ourselves, Cleveland has staggering problems and continues to be on a course to nowhere the last 39 years I have lived here. People have to want to live in the city, but they don't. They can't, where are they going to send their kids to school? Where are they going to shop? I can't give Cleveland any more credit for trying. They have been trying for too long with hardly any results. It's not a destination with a lot of tourism or good weather. Most cities play to their strengths and that's how they attract people. What are Clevelands strengths that you can't get anywhere else in the country? I can't think of any. What city has such a large body of water like us but does nothing with it?

Bottom line, until people want to live in Cleveland, what's the point? Having rock halls, fancy apartments, etc.. does nothing. It's putting the apple before the cart.

People need a genuine reason to move here. Six months of winter doesn't help either.

So again, I ask, what can Cleveland do to differentiate itself from everyone else? How about zero taxes for people who open a business. Zero forever. When enough businesses move in with business owners, then repeal the law and grandfather in those who were first forever.

I wouldn't even say close Burke and develope it anymore. Why? Because again it's putting the apple before the cart. Having all the nice fancy stuff means nothing if people don't want to live here. You have a city with nice things that nobody wants.

All Cleveland could ever have going for it right now is a tax friendly and business friendly atmosphere. But govt doesn't want to do that. They want to grow in spite of themselves but can't figure it out.

If I was mayor, I would cut everything and put Cleveland on the map as the most tax friendly destination in the nation.
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-02-2010, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Youngstown, Oh.
3,043 posts, read 3,784,305 times
Reputation: 1765
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom11011 View Post
Let's not delude ourselves, Cleveland has staggering problems and continues to be on a course to nowhere the last 39 years I have lived here. People have to want to live in the city, but they don't. They can't, where are they going to send their kids to school? Where are they going to shop? I can't give Cleveland any more credit for trying. They have been trying for too long with hardly any results. It's not a destination with a lot of tourism or good weather. Most cities play to their strengths and that's how they attract people. What are Clevelands strengths that you can't get anywhere else in the country? I can't think of any. What city has such a large body of water like us but does nothing with it?

Bottom line, until people want to live in Cleveland, what's the point? Having rock halls, fancy apartments, etc.. does nothing. It's putting the apple before the cart.

People need a genuine reason to move here. Six months of winter doesn't help either.

So again, I ask, what can Cleveland do to differentiate itself from everyone else? How about zero taxes for people who open a business. Zero forever. When enough businesses move in with business owners, then repeal the law and grandfather in those who were first forever.

I wouldn't even say close Burke and develope it anymore. Why? Because again it's putting the apple before the cart. Having all the nice fancy stuff means nothing if people don't want to live here. You have a city with nice things that nobody wants.

All Cleveland could ever have going for it right now is a tax friendly and business friendly atmosphere. But govt doesn't want to do that. They want to grow in spite of themselves but can't figure it out.

If I was mayor, I would cut everything and put Cleveland on the map as the most tax friendly destination in the nation.
If people don't want to live in Cleveland, why are these fancy apartments being built, and why are people moving into them?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
308 posts, read 348,476 times
Reputation: 99
No kids.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
1,819 posts, read 2,510,443 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom11011 View Post
No kids.
Do you think people with kids are moving into fancy apartments in New York City? Chicago? San Fransisco? I can tell you that for the most part they are not. So are these cities failures also? Maybe they are, because no American inner cities do a good job of providing a family friendly atmosphere these days.

Guess what, those fancy apartments lead to a larger tax base that the city could use (maybe they wouldn't have to tax business as much). They also lead to the revitalization of neighborhoods, which means more business demand and safety. You have to start somewhere to get the ball rolling, and if people without kids move into the city it's start.

(FYI: Cleveland really has very few fancy apartments compared to many cities. It could use a lot more.)

I agree that Cleveland should do whatever it can to be more pro-business, but its not that simple. There should still be efforts to make it an attractive city to live in.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
308 posts, read 348,476 times
Reputation: 99
>>>You have to start somewhere to get the ball rolling

There has been plenty of opportunity to start, but the ball doesn't roll in Cleveland right now. I've heard nothing but promises. I hate to point out the obvious, but the city reached it's peak population in 1955. Since then, the population has declined by 2/3. People just don't want to live here, they would rather live in the suburbs. Business is dying. Entire buildings are now mothballed in the city. We are only filling 1/2 of the corporate buildings downtown. Kids graduate college and immediately relocate, some out of Cleveland area, some out of the county, some out of the state --no jobs.

I don't want to sound like a naysayer, but the city lacks a plan and lacks real leadership. I'm not even a Republican but even I can see that in order to survive, they must attract business. Attracting business means attracting business owners. When steel moved out, the city was decimated, possibly forever unless there some future compelling reason to move back.

In my view only 2 things can save the city and keep it from turning into a Youngstown or Toledo (sorry YT and Toledo). Either Cleveland must become the most business friendly location on planet earth, or, Cleveland must dominate and rule the next big industry such as Wind/Solar/Battery, but even that is not happening. All cities had an equal chance to compete, but it is slipping through our fingers. It could have been us.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
191 posts, read 233,003 times
Reputation: 71
I hate when people just make stats up. We only fill 50% of our downtown buildings, Where did you get that number from? Downtown vacancy is currently at 21%. That's obviously still a little high but it's definitely not 50%! Here is the link containing a report from one of the large commercial realtors. http://www.grubb-ellis.com/SitePages...?type=9&id=794
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 09:25 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
308 posts, read 348,476 times
Reputation: 99
I think it depends who you ask. There is office space that is vacant but someone is still paying the rent on it and that is not included. But you are right, I was over-zealous with 50%.

But, there is the move of Eaton Corp in 2 years to Beachwood (300,000 square feet)

PNC bought out National City, they won't need 2 corporate offices soon (740,000 square feet)
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
1,056 posts, read 941,585 times
Reputation: 526
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom11011 View Post
I hate to point out the obvious, but the city reached it's peak population in 1955. Since then, the population has declined by 2/3.
1960 population: 876,050
2000 population: 478,403

It's declined by about half, which isn't anything to get excited about, but it's better than 2/3.

Of course one could point out most central cities are less dense than in the past. Difference in Cleveland being it is land locked to it can't annex to obscure the numbers (i.e. Columbus, name any southern or western city). Many "newer" cities, by nature of having less preexisting neighboring entities, are actually combinations of areas that would be considered entirely suburban and separate in this area (i.e. Seven Hills would be in Cleveland proper).

I think we're all aware that Cleveland is generally not a destination spot for relocation but the proliferation of individual, independent entities in this area makes "Cleveland" on paper appear worse in comparison to other cities that are not playing by the same rules (on paper).

I think an analyzation of metro area population trends would be a bit more telling (I'm betting it's closer to a 15% in population reduction). How many suburbanites are sitting on the other side of the Medina or Lake or Lorain County lines?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-02-2010, 11:09 PM
 
Location: Chicago
1,853 posts, read 1,798,933 times
Reputation: 2175
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom11011 View Post
I think it depends who you ask. There is office space that is vacant but someone is still paying the rent on it and that is not included. But you are right, I was over-zealous with 50%.

But, there is the move of Eaton Corp in 2 years to Beachwood (300,000 square feet)

PNC bought out National City, they won't need 2 corporate offices soon (740,000 square feet)
No, not "over-zealous." Just wrong.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-03-2010, 06:17 AM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
308 posts, read 348,476 times
Reputation: 99
1950 = 914,808
2009 = 431,363

Quote:
Originally Posted by squarebetterthanall View Post
1960 population: 876,050
2000 population: 478,403

it's declined by about half, which isn't anything to get excited about, but it's better than 2/3.

of course one could point out most central cities are less dense than in the past. Difference in cleveland being it is land locked to it can't annex to obscure the numbers (i.e. Columbus, name any southern or western city). Many "newer" cities, by nature of having less preexisting neighboring entities, are actually combinations of areas that would be considered entirely suburban and separate in this area (i.e. Seven hills would be in cleveland proper).

I think we're all aware that cleveland is generally not a destination spot for relocation but the proliferation of individual, independent entities in this area makes "cleveland" on paper appear worse in comparison to other cities that are not playing by the same rules (on paper).

I think an analyzation of metro area population trends would be a bit more telling (i'm betting it's closer to a 15% in population reduction). How many suburbanites are sitting on the other side of the medina or lake or lorain county lines?
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $79,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Ohio > Cleveland

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top