Cleveland Population Growth? (Columbus, Cincinnati, Akron: income, professionals, statistics)

[Townes Van Zandt]

I found some interesting statistics posted in the General U.S forum.

2008
Cleveland Pop: 408,101
2009
Cleveland Pop: 431,369

Source for 2008 (city limits): Cleveland city, OH; Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH Metro Area - ACS Demographic and Housing Estimates: 2008
Source for 2009 (city limits): http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...false&-format=



Cleveland Metro 2008: 2,088,291
Cleveland Metro 2009: 2,091,286

Source for the Metro (2008): Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor, OH Metro Area - ACS Demographic and Housing Estimates: 2008
Source for the Metro (2009): http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet...false&-format=



Obviously, these estimates represent modest growth at best, but when you compare them to the constant decline that occurred over the previous decade, there's reason for hope.

It also raises the obvious question; was 2008 rock bottom for Cleveland's population?

[Buckeyes440]

Heh yes I was quite surprised to see his claims actually backed up with links (albeit estimations, but still). The only downside to the growth in Cleveland proper is that most of it was in the income groups making <25k. Granted, the economy played some factor in that but regardless adding more poor people doesn't really benefit the city.

It will be interesting to see if Cleveland can continue the trend (tho hopefully the people that come will be making more money). One year of growth is nice but practically meaningless if you can't build on it in the future. Hopefully the city manages to do that, and not just with population but in other areas too.

[WeSoHood]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes440

Heh yes I was quite surprised to see his claims actually backed up with links (albeit estimations, but still). The only downside to the growth in Cleveland proper is that most of it was in the income groups making <25k. Granted, the economy played some factor in that but regardless adding more poor people doesn't really benefit the city.

It will be interesting to see if Cleveland can continue the trend (tho hopefully the people that come will be making more money). One year of growth is nice but practically meaningless if you can't build on it in the future. Hopefully the city manages to do that, and not just with population but in other areas too.

Not sure about that. I know many people who have recently moved into the city who are young business professionals. Quite a few actually.. but then again I am a business man and really only associate with others similarly career oriented.

[Buckeyes440]

Originally Posted by WeSoHood

Not sure about that. I know many people who have recently moved into the city who are young business professionals. Quite a few actually.. but then again I am a business man and really only associate with others similarly career oriented.

From the links above:

2008:


2009:


As you can see, households making <25k increased by almost 14,000. Thats pretty bad when the there was only a 16,600 increase in households overall. Of course that doesn't include the margin of error, but even with that the numbers still tell the same story.

[BelieveInCleve]

Unfortunately, the 2008 population (that you posted) and the supposed "growth" are not true. Cleveland is still losing population at a high rate, 45,000+ people lost in 10 years. It's not even realistic to think that Cleveland gained 23,000 residents in one year after losing 2,000-6,500 a year prior to that. Other places say Cleveland was 433,452 in 2008. The metro and NE Ohio as a whole are still losing population as well. I wish this was not the case but it is.

[Cincy-Rise]

Originally Posted by BelieveInCleve

Unfortunately, the 2008 population (that you posted) and the supposed "growth" are not true. Cleveland is still losing population at a high rate, 45,000+ people lost in 10 years. It's not even realistic to think that Cleveland gained 23,000 residents in one year after losing 2,000-6,500 a year prior to that. Other places say Cleveland was 433,452 in 2008. The metro and NE Ohio as a whole are still losing population as well. I wish this was not the case but it is.

Hey, there's a simple way to reverse this trend ... ANNEX!

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by Cincy-Rise

Hey, there's a simple way to reverse this trend ... ANNEX!

lol, but Cleveland (and Cincinnati) would have a much harder time annexing land or merging than Columbus would as we're already surrounded by incorporated municipalities. We have a better chance merging with the county like Louisville or Indianapolis did than annexing much land. At most we might be able to get East Cleveland, which isn't saying much. Also, nearly every city/suburb in Cuyahoga County is losing population at a high rate. The only solution is to improve to a level that attracts people to the city/area.

[Buckeyes440]

Originally Posted by BelieveInCleve

lol, but Cleveland (and Cincinnati) would have a much harder time annexing land or merging than Columbus would as we're already surrounded by incorporated municipalities. We have a better chance merging with the county like Louisville or Indianapolis did than annexing much land. At most we might be able to get East Cleveland, which isn't saying much. Also, nearly every city/suburb in Cuyahoga County is losing population at a high rate. The only solution is to improve to a level that attracts people to the city/area.

That's the most troubling fact in this whole discussion. I can understand why people would leave Cleveland. It sucks to see, sure, but it's understandable. Yet all the suburbs that people tout as being so great are losing and even bleeding people too. And most of said suburbs are very livable, safe places with a decent amount of amenities. That's why I wonder if Cleveland is actually fixable. If the surrounding suburbs - all of which are in far better shape than Cleveland - can't even manage to have stable populations, how can you expect to turn the anchor city around? Is that level of improvement actually attainable?

[WeSoHood]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes440

From the links above:

2008:


2009:


As you can see, households making <25k increased by almost 14,000. Thats pretty bad when the there was only a 16,600 increase in households overall. Of course that doesn't include the margin of error, but even with that the numbers still tell the same story.

I can read graphs all day long, but in a study based on 'estimates' it doesn't really matter. I was just posting my personal experience / observations with people moving into the city.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by Buckeyes440

That's the most troubling fact in this whole discussion. I can understand why people would leave Cleveland. It sucks to see, sure, but it's understandable. Yet all the suburbs that people tout as being so great are losing and even bleeding people too. And most of said suburbs are very livable, safe places with a decent amount of amenities. That's why I wonder if Cleveland is actually fixable. If the surrounding suburbs - all of which are in far better shape than Cleveland - can't even manage to have stable populations, how can you expect to turn the anchor city around? Is that level of improvement actually attainable?

I completely agree. It is possible (although it would take A LOT), but realistic?, I honestly don't think so.

There's a few things being seen in NE Ohio as a whole, especially the immediate Cleveland area. 1. Suburbanization of the region, people are moving out of the core urban cities of the areas and moving out to the suburbs. 2. People moving from inner ring suburbs into outer ring suburbs and more rural areas. 3. People leaving the core counties, especially Cuyahoga County. From 2000-now, Cuyahoga County lost the most population of any county outside of New Orleans Parish (Hurricane Katrina).

Here's some maps and graphs I found:





http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008...adCUYAHOGA.pdf

Metro Cleveland is 3rd nationally in population loss: Search the latest numbers | cleveland.com

Nearly every county in the Cleveland/Akron area actually gained population, but much of their gains came from people moving from Cuyahoga County, and the loss from Cuyahoga County offset all the gains so there's actually loss overall:
http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/03/20CGOHIOCEN.pdf