Clevelands population decline. (Akron, Youngstown, Canton: houses, neighborhood, to buy)

[CTownNative]

Here is some information I found on cleveland.com on the shrinking population of the city.

Our shrinking city - Cleveland's Top Story from The Plain Dealer

map of Kinsman in 1949 then in 2005

cleveland.com: Everything Cleveland

[twixcookie]

I am originally from Cleveland. All of this started back when automotive and steel, aka manufacturing changed.
Cleveland, like so many other rust belt towns, was told to revamp into new "high tech cities". Which was so dumb, because these cities had a rich labor force in manufacturing, from factory workers to engineers and designers.
Many wanted the "dirty industries" to go overseas and by golly, they got what they wished for. In my opinion, these cities have never recovered, instead, many people are underemployed, and the middle class has shrunk.
Instead of giving companies reasons to be here, our government lets them go.
Ask yourself why Honda built their plant in Marysville, or Toyota in Indiana, etc....yeah, taxes, easier to build the cars here, and the workforce.
So the next time you hear someone bad mouthing American workers, remind them that the Japanese employ us.
In my opinion, Americans are the greatest workers, and I am tired of hearing how other nations are better. They are simply CHEAPER. I hope they will be able to buy all the high tech stuff they are producing, because soon, we won't be.

[CTownNative]

Originally Posted by twixcookie

I am originally from Cleveland. All of this started back when automotive and steel, aka manufacturing changed.
Cleveland, like so many other rust belt towns, was told to revamp into new "high tech cities". Which was so dumb, because these cities had a rich labor force in manufacturing, from factory workers to engineers and designers.
Many wanted the "dirty industries" to go overseas and by golly, they got what they wished for. In my opinion, these cities have never recovered, instead, many people are underemployed, and the middle class has shrunk.
Instead of giving companies reasons to be here, our government lets them go.
Ask yourself why Honda built their plant in Marysville, or Toyota in Indiana, etc....yeah, taxes, easier to build the cars here, and the workforce.
So the next time you hear someone bad mouthing American workers, remind them that the Japanese employ us.
In my opinion, Americans are the greatest workers, and I am tired of hearing how other nations are better. They are simply CHEAPER. I hope they will be able to buy all the high tech stuff they are producing, because soon, we won't be.

So true on the last 2 sentances.

[BelieveInCleve]

That is just like this picture I saw of the old Cleveland Indians field (League Park) on E66th Street. The old picture i saw of League Park and the surrounding neighborhood was from around 1950 and all the lots were filled up with houses and factories. Now if you go look at the same neighborhood on google earth or local.live- 3/4 of the neighborhood have been demolished. Also, Cleveland was once the 5th biggest city in the Nation now it dropped down to 33rd. The highest recorded population Cleveland ever had was 915,000 but actually a few years before that- the population was estimated at 1.2 million. I dont think Cleveland is shrinking though because the Cleveland metro area has 3 million people the only difference now is that people have moved out of the central city. Cleveland is still the 12th largest market in the nation so I dont believe it will ever shrink.

[ottomobeale]

I lived in Cleveland proper for 15 years. Even though I lived in West Park which was labeled relatively good. You would have to pay me to live in the city proper again.

Lousy services. Cops who dont care. Terrible schools. The neighborhood itself was nice. There simply is very little supporting it.

[boardmanite]

Originally Posted by Cle440

I dont think Cleveland is shrinking though because the Cleveland metro area has 3 million people the only difference now is that people have moved out of the central city. Cleveland is still the 12th largest market in the nation so I dont believe it will ever shrink.

Actually Cleveland's Metro Area population was higher in 1970 than it is today. 37 years ago there were 3,374,456 people, but today there are 3,197,679. The Cleveland-Akron-Canton, OH area's population shrank during the 70s and 80s, grew slightly during the 90s, and has been shrinking again since 2000. Out of the 361 metropolitan areas in the US, only Pittsburgh and New Orleans have lost more residents since 2000.

Here is the link: Estimates of Population Change for Metropolitan Statistical Areas and Rankings: July 1, 2005 to July 1, 2006

That being said, I don't think that you can judge a place by its population growth. The fastest growing places are not necessarily the best, and cities like Cleveland and Pittsburgh are definitely not the worst. In fact, didn't the Economist just rank those two as "most liveable"???

Some places are losing population. That's all there is to it. North East Ohio is one of them. The article posted in this thread was very fascinating. It seems that Cleveland does not want to think of itself as a "shrinking" city, even though the statistics show that even the whole metro area is shrinking. On the other hand, Youngstown (my hometown) has embraced the idea of being a "shrinking" city. The current mayor is focusing on managing decline and improving the quality of life, instead of trying to boost the city's population like Cleveland is doing.

[LancasterNative]

I agree that American workers are the best in the world. There is absolutely nothing wrong with the people in our workforce. Americans have the can-do ethic, and an unbeatable attitude when it comes to getting things done.

However...when we imported UNIONS in here from the socialists in Europe who came up with the idea, seeds were sown for the eventual demise of U.S. manufacturing.

Sure, in the early days (pre-1950) unions did a lot of good. Restricting child labor, eight-hour workdays, five-day workweeks: all great ideas! But then they began getting greedy.

Collectively bargaining for (i.e. demanding) ever more concessions from companies, unions soon became the chief cause of laziness, mediocrity, an "entitlement" mentality, and the adversarial "us vs. them" attitude pitting labor against management.

Standard union protocols encouraged unionized workers to do the least possible work for the most pay. Wages topping $40/hr. for turning a screw, fat pensions/retirement plans, and healthcare packages that rivaled the socialist British became expected by anyone working in manufacturing.

Phrases like "that's not my job" and "hey, I'm on my 15-min. break!" replaced "sure, I can do that" and "how can I help you?"

In the environment created by unions, businesses were crippled by their overhead costs, and could no longer compete. So they closed. Or moved. In fact, with the continued existence of unions it's a wonder that ALL our industry isn't gone.

Meanwhile, has anyone noticed what U.S. states are doing the manufacturing today? Where are the new plants being built, that employ Americans to build American products, for use by fellow Americans? That's right...

In the South. In the West. In the "right-to-work" states, where workers are free to negotiate individually with their employers, and are not forced to join a union!

There, you don't have mafia thugs sent by Da Yuunion Bawss to bash in your windshield because you're not union.

Southerners have always been smart. They never bought into the whole Marxist idea of collective bargaining in the first place. Down there, they prefer honest negotiating. Don't like your boss? Find a new job. Are your employees lazy? Fire them and hire new ones. It's basic free enterprise. Freedom! What a concept...

It's easy to feel bad for a poor ol' town like Cleveland. I lived there for awhile ("served my time") then got out. I don't really have much sympathy for the place, though. Cleveland destroyed Cleveland, itself. Ditto for every other unionized rust-belt city that's now falling apart.

Too bad the U.S. automotive industry didn't evolve and grow up in Atlanta...

[BelieveInCleve]

I dont like the idea of Cleveland being a mid sized city it doesnt seem right to me. Cleveland used to be the 5th biggest city in the country, it was a big city before any place on the west coast was even a mid sized city. I dont like what they did on the Eastside of Cleveland either. They built suburban homes in the middle of the inner city, it didnt look right to me at all. All Cleveland needs to grow is jobs for people so they move here and stay but we all know thats not easy.

[twixcookie]

Cleveland didn't destroy itself. I remember working for a company back in the early 80s and we got a letter from one of the VPs of Ford Motor, telling us how he was going to strip Cleve Engine Plant 2 and make it a skeleton plant and move everything to Mexico.
Unions got greedy, but CEOs are greedy. I guess the union mentality was "get it while you can", just like the CEOs are.
I don't see the south or the west being much better for the individual employee, if you live in an "at will" state, they can fire you at any time, for no reason at all. You have no stability at all. You can be fired if someone is put in charge of you who just takes a dislike to you, or doesn't like the way you part your hair. There is no accountability anymore.

[twixcookie]

And again, Americans are the best workers in the world. I get tired of hearing people say Americans are too expensive to employ. I guess they want America becoming like China or India, because it is our good wages that give us that higher standard of living.
I hate cheap.