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Old 11-21-2011, 02:11 PM
 
4,245 posts, read 6,155,206 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traveler87 View Post
I don't remember the street names or neighborhoods. I don't know Chicago off the top of my head. I will have to retrace the areas that I was in this past summer. Trust me, it wasn't pretty.
I don't know if they make old Detroit look "nice," but there are certainly some very, very bad areas on the S-W sides. Virtually the entire area around the UofC on into Indiana is fairly nasty. There are miles upon miles of bad areas along Cicero, Ogden, Kedzie, Pulaski, Western, Racine, Halsted, etc. Basically, if you're heading N-NW on the Dan Ryan, don't get off until you pass the Stevenson. Then, if you're anywhere near the loop, make sure you head east.
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
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Well a healthier Cleveland may be a bit Chicago-ish, but I would rather just see it recognized as a healthier Cleveland than a mini-Chicago. I actually think a revitalized Cleveland would be a better place to live since it could in theory offer similar amenities and urban life without the hassle and a with a better geographic location.

That being said Cleveland still has a long ways to go. I think Cleveland needs about 30 more years of steady urban redevelopment and infrastructure improvements before the above mentioned scenario can become a reality. From what I can tell Chicago was doing decades ago what Cleveland is just getting started on to address the decline of the urban core. People mention how Chicago also has horrible ares, which is very true. However, Cleveland needs to work on its good (or potentially good) areas before they offer a Chicago day-to-day living experience on a smaller level.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Scarlet, unless you wanted to be relegated to buses like you would be in Cleveland, you pretty much need a car in Chicagoland unless you live (and stay) within the loop or within a few blocks of the CTA stations. That's why getting a parking spot on the street is next to impossible -- everyone outside of the loop has a car unless they truly can't afford one.
Yes, the majority of Chicago is not livable without a car. However, the areas of the city that are livable without a car probably contain of about 750k to 1 million people. These areas consist of the neighborhoods around the Loop and much of the north side. There are many people in Chicago who are professional types with good incomes who choose to go without a car because it's not worth having, myself being one of them (although I did have car for much of the time I have lived here). Nobody thinks anything of it either, which is not the case in Cleveland where it would be odd for anyone but a poor person to not have a car.

Last edited by 5Lakes; 11-21-2011 at 09:23 PM..
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Old 11-21-2011, 09:52 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,891 posts, read 6,206,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Scarlet, unless you wanted to be relegated to buses like you would be in Cleveland, you pretty much need a car in Chicagoland unless you live (and stay) within the loop or within a few blocks of the CTA stations. That's why getting a parking spot on the street is next to impossible -- everyone outside of the loop has a car unless they truly can't afford one.
That is not at all true.
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Old 11-22-2011, 07:58 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
12,700 posts, read 14,826,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tribecavsbrowns View Post
This is a good idea and something that's not stressed enough.
And believe it or not it happens. My wife works with a guy that lives in flippin Erie, PA!! He commutes to DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND every day.
Crazy, man, crazy.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
And believe it or not it happens. My wife works with a guy that lives in flippin Erie, PA!! He commutes to DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND every day.
Crazy, man, crazy.
Yes, very crazy. Even with a very fuel efficient vehicle, that's 6-7 gallons of gas every day (not to mention, a minimum of 1.5 hours each way). I hope it's a great job.
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Old 11-22-2011, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew61 View Post
That is not at all true.
Generally, it is. Most people in Chicagoland have cars. Even if the number stated above by 5Lakes (750k-1 million not needing them) is accurate, that's only 10% of the CSA.

Don't get me wrong, the CTA is a great asset. But automobiles still overwhelm the area.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
And believe it or not it happens. My wife works with a guy that lives in flippin Erie, PA!! He commutes to DOWNTOWN CLEVELAND every day.
Crazy, man, crazy.
That must be great fun in the wintertime.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH USA / formerly Chicago for 20 years
3,891 posts, read 6,206,626 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector View Post
Generally, it is. Most people in Chicagoland have cars. Even if the number stated above by 5Lakes (750k-1 million not needing them) is accurate, that's only 10% of the CSA.

Don't get me wrong, the CTA is a great asset. But automobiles still overwhelm the area.
Well, all I know is that here in East Lakeview, where I live, a full five miles north of the Loop, quite a few people don't own cars because it's a hassle here, and affordability has nothing to do with it.

I owned a car back when I had to travel to the suburbs five days a week to get to work. After several years of that, I started working downtown where it was easy and convenient to get to via public transportation from where I live. I observed that I was only using my car once every two to three weeks, and even though I could technically "afford" the expense (insurance, garage parking, etc.), I couldn't justify it. I realized the car was costing me an enormous amount of money per trip, all things considered. So I eventually got rid of it. And nowadays there are car-sharing services (Zipcar, I-GO, etc.) in the area which are good for people who only need to use a car occasionally. Still other people I know rent cars, but only on the weekends.

Perhaps in Chicago's less densely-populated areas well away from the lake, it's different. And in many of the suburbs, a car is pretty much a necessity. But that still leaves a pretty enormous chunk of the city -- an area that has a population larger than the entire city of Cleveland -- where it's not only practical, but preferable, to live carfree.
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Old 11-22-2011, 04:43 PM
 
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Not even close...
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Old 11-22-2011, 06:56 PM
 
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I think all the major cities/metro areas within the 5 state (Old Northwest) region that are 2 million plus all share a lot in common. Chicago, Cleveland, and Detroit, Cincinnati, and St. Louis all are part of a region

read: Cities of the Heartland: The Rise and Fall of the Industrial Midwest by Jon C. Teaford. Written in the mid-90s.

Its a great read for everyone who doesn't see the similarities between Chicago and the other four cities.

Also, in order to understand whay makes Chicago more "world class" compared to its other midwest cousins, you might want to read Boss by Mike Royko.

It is not only about the first Mayor Daley and what he did for the city.

Essentially, just like other midwestern cities, Chicago too was stagnating during the 60s and into the 70s facing competition with the emerging cities of the south and west, and what was becoming a "bicoastal" nation. Which I think is still the reality today. The cities/metros that have the unique opportunities that atract those with the greatess dreams are led by New York City and LA. Followed by San Fran/Bay area and the greater D.C. Area.

Mayor Daley in the 1960s, realizing the fact that Chicago could face obsolescence, worked to turn downtown Chicago into a mini-Manhattan. Remember that Chicagos tallest building from the 1920s through the 1960s (the Board of Trade) was barely taller than Detroits tallest (Penoboscot) and Cincinnatis tallest (Carew) and as you Clevelanders know your city was home to the tallest building outside New York, the Terminal Tower.

Chicago did NOT start building super tall buildings, did not start focusing on the near north side (Mag Mile) (Michigan was certainly always magnificent, but in a way that was much more comparable to Detroits Woodward Ave at the time. Also there were relatively few high rises along the north lakefront (not that much more than what was along Detroits east lakefront at the time) (again before late 1960s). Also El lines were added, O'Hare airport, etc. Whatever to keep the core vibrant and globally important.

Daley, and his politically connected blue collared white ethnic cohort, had to reinvent Chicago like I said turning downtown into a mini-Manhattan. Which it was very successful at, because it brought in crowds, tourists,and ultimately suburbanites and transplants that wanted to live in the new Chicago. It meant of course, that resources from a declining city with declining industrial districts had to be redirected from neighborhood needs like schools, safety, etc. but in the end apparently the ends justified the means, because of how people perceive Chicago today. In a way, Chicago is the city that "faked it, til it made it."

Of course this means that Chicago has a lot of people who never leave their neighborhood, haven't traveled much, yet think there is little reason to visit anywhere else, as there developed a "center of the universe" mentality that developed as people watched the expanding skyline.

The point of all of this, is that although Chicago was always larger, more economically developed, with more extensive transportation infrastructure, the perceived gap between a city like Chicago and a city like Detroit or Cleveland has more to do with a father and a son who were able to turn Chicago into the city is today basically by being the closest an american city has had to a dictatorship for 40 total years who of course can get thing done.

Again, despite Chicagos ethnic diversity, and internationl feel, Chicago is world class because of a father and son whos family more or less lived in the same predominantly working class Irish American neighborhood for about six or seven generations!
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