Would Cleveland/Northeast Ohio Be Better Off if it Were Its Own State? (Columbus: taxes, dangerous)

[NC_MVP]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Yeah, delaying infrastructure projects would never happen in Columbus...

ODOT pushes back future phases of I-70/71 reconstruction project | The Columbus Dispatch

Keep wearing the tinfoil hats up there, guys.

LOL, thanks for posting that link to dispel the myth that a construction project would never get derailed in Columbus.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by OhAcid

Considering it's also I90, one of the busiest highways in America, yes it does. Especially since it's also a bridge.

So you're saying that pushing back Columbus area projects for decades goes directly against Cleveland. Amazing. Will the victim complex never cease?

[1watertiger]

imo. postponing the the I-90 inner-belt bridge project,considering the first of two bridges is 40% complete is just crazy... my questions, specifically to this "N.E.Ohio" thread are. what % of the gas tax does greater cleveland and N.E.Ohio contribute to the state ? and do we see that same % of money returned to us for our streets and bridges? also, i wonder how these people we entrust, can get away with mis-calculating a construction budget by 5-7 billion is it?? i think in my next life i will come back as a state,gov.,worker or polititian,, mmm maybe a lawyer.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by 1watertiger

imo. postponing the the I-90 inner-belt bridge project,considering the first of two bridges is 40% complete is just crazy... my questions, specifically to this "N.E.Ohio" thread are. what % of the gas tax does greater cleveland and N.E.Ohio contribute to the state ? and do we see that same % of money returned to us for our streets and bridges? also, i wonder how these people we entrust, can get away with mis-calculating a construction budget by 5-7 billion is it?? i think in my next life i will come back as a state,gov.,worker or polititian,, mmm maybe a lawyer.

Part of the problem is that the recession and rising gas prices killed a lot of the gas tax income statewide. Driving is down overall. But really, the problem started a long time ago. When we were building these massive highway systems, no one seemed to take a step back and wonder how we would pay for the maintenance and inevitable growth. No one considered if highways were the best use of transportation funding. The assumption seemed to be that car travel and cities would keep on growing pretty much into infinity and that there would always be cash. Now suddenly there's no money for ANY projects anywhere. It's not just an accounting problem. It's a systemwide failure.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Pushing back the 70/71 project to 2025 really sticks it to NE Ohio! That'll teach you guys!

There's a huge difference between pushing back a future phase of an expansion project that doesn't have a shovel in the dirt yet and de-funding a replacement/maintenance project that is already underway, has been for over a year, and has, by the admission of ODOT, an immediate need for completion due to safety concerns.

[jbcmh81]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

There's a huge difference between pushing back a future phase of an expansion project that doesn't have a shovel in the dirt yet and de-funding a replacement/maintenance project that is already underway, has been for over a year, and has, by the admission of ODOT, an immediate need for completion due to safety concerns.

Expansion? It's a rebuild, and the first phase did begin. And ODOT told us it needed to be done ASAP as well, considering it's the most dangerous stretch of highway in the state. It seems all of these "immediate" needs due to safety concerns weren't so immediate after all.

I wish one of you would just admit to being wrong about this.

[OhAcid]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

There's a huge difference between pushing back a future phase of an expansion project that doesn't have a shovel in the dirt yet and de-funding a replacement/maintenance project that is already underway, has been for over a year, and has, by the admission of ODOT, an immediate need for completion due to safety concerns.

This, this, this this this.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

And it's supremely ironic that you're b*tching about Columbus benefitting from public money when your entire complaint is that Cleveland should be getting a lot more of it. Your argument is petty and ridiculous.

My argument is nothing of the sort. My argument is that Columbus derives a HUGE amount of benefit from tax dollars. My statement is that people from Columbus ought to recognize their unique position among the 3Cs before opening their immense pie holes. Over 55,000 direct positions of employment are derived from public dollars that come largely from somewhere else. State/Federal funds account for the Columbus area's top 3 employers.

Columbus Top 3:
1.) The State of Ohio - 26,037
2.) OSU - 17,361
3.) US Government - 13,300

Cleveland Top 10:
1. Cleveland Clinic Foundation - 27,755
2. University Hospitals Health Systems Inc. - 16,611
3. Progressive Corp. - 9,017
4. KeyCorp - 6,397
5. PNC/National City Corp. - 6,051
6. Case Western Reserve University - 5,075
7. Ford Motor Co. - 4,910
8. Sherwin-Williams - 3,176
9. Continental Airlines - 2,892
10. Giant Eagle - 2,857

Note: They're ALL private companies and institutions.

If you can't see the discrepancy/disparity just from these figures alone, my advice would be to be really careful about who you are calling "dense." It will save you a bit of embarrassment in the future.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Expansion? It's a rebuild, and the first phase did begin. And ODOT told us it needed to be done ASAP as well, considering it's the most dangerous stretch of highway in the state. It seems all of these "immediate" needs due to safety concerns weren't so immediate after all.

I wish one of you would just admit to being wrong about this.

It's an expansion. I wish you would look at the plans. Besides, phase 1 (the one with a shovel in the ground) of your slated projects will be completed as planned.

The Innerbelt Bridge over I-90 has structural integrity issues. It's not dangerous because people drive like idiots on it. It's dangerous because it is becoming structurally unsound. If Columbus had a bridge running over a large river value that was in danger of failure, I would agree. But, that isn't remotely the case.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jbcmh81

Part of the problem is that the recession and rising gas prices killed a lot of the gas tax income statewide. Driving is down overall. But really, the problem started a long time ago. When we were building these massive highway systems, no one seemed to take a step back and wonder how we would pay for the maintenance and inevitable growth. No one considered if highways were the best use of transportation funding. The assumption seemed to be that car travel and cities would keep on growing pretty much into infinity and that there would always be cash. Now suddenly there's no money for ANY projects anywhere. It's not just an accounting problem. It's a systemwide failure.

That's all fine and good, but it seems that we never have problems finding trillions of dollars to fight wars. The "system-wide failure" has more to do with our country's out of whack priorities than it does with the unavailability of funding. The cash is there, it's just that we're more interested in blowing crap up elsewhere than we are in building/re-building things at home.