What Cleveland needs (property tax, Walmart, property)

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

Cleveland is a victim of Free Trade and De-segregation.

So you would prefer going back to the "good old days" of Expensive Trade and Re-segregation?

If those things radically changed, then Cleveland would.

Yeah, it sure would.

Until then, Cleveland is going to shrink.

Yes, just like all the other metros in the south and west that are stuck in a multi-decade decline thanks to free trade and desegregation.

So, I suppose, Cleveland needs to accept its' demise with grace and try to make the best of it. Which, is what a lot of people have been doing for a long time.

Yep, just sit back and relax, go with the flow. Dimora and Russo will take care of everything for you.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by The Cactus Leaguer

OK, I've been holding my tongue for long enough.

Free trade is NOT what is ruining Ohio, or the country.

What do you think is causing Cleveland to die/shrink?

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

What do you think is causing Cleveland to die/shrink?

1. The rise in recent decades of knowledge work which is not dependent upon geography or proximity to related industries;

2. An onerous state/local tax structure which incentivizes businesses to start up and/or relocate in states such as Washington, Nevada, Texas, and Florida (all of which have no state income tax);

3. Improved shipping tankers, transportation routes, and computer/communication networks which created complex, worldwide just-in-time inventory and removed the inherent manufacturing advantages that the Great Lakes region had at one time;

4. Union and management of Great Lakes-based manufacturers being slow to adapt to quality measures demanded by consumers... and by the time they came around, it was too late because consumers had already been branded to love and be loyal to their Sonys, Hondas, Toyotas, etc.

5. Inability to attract and retain the most recent generation of college educated workforce due the reasons listed above (along with other reasons such as fears about crime, weather, political corruption, etc.), which creates a snowball effect on everything else.

Cleveland will come back. I'm sure of it. In fact, there is a pretty good chance we'll be banking on it. But it sure as heck won't come back on the wings of protectionism and re-segregation (or whatever you called it). It will come back because it will come around and compete on the same level that other great cities compete, and it has the geography, the history, and the legacy infrastructure (it's cheaper to maintain legacy infrastructure than to continue sprawling like Vegas/Phoenix) to do well going forward. That and people will eventually realize that it is important to be closer to abundant resources of clean energy and clean water.

[costello_musicman]

^^Great Post

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by The Cactus Leaguer

1. The rise in recent decades of knowledge work which is not dependent upon geography or proximity to related industries;

So people can do their work from anywhere. Apparently, you don't think they'd want to do it from here. Well, it isn't a vacation spot. Still, this class sounds like a relatively small class of people.

2. An onerous state/local tax structure which incentivizes businesses to start up and/or relocate in states such as Washington, Nevada, Texas, and Florida (all of which have no state income tax);

You think overall business expenses are high in Ohio. I researched that once and it didn't appear to be a very significant factor for or against The State or Cuyahoga County. Although, as an employee, the cost of living here can be extremely lower than other areas of the country that are experiencing growth. On the other hand, in an area with high unemployment, the labor market should be inviting. Also the real estate market. My impression is no one is coming here because there is nothing to bring that this area has traditionally attracted. Apparently, Cleveland got on the map because of its' location and the attractiveness of that to Manufacturing.

3. Improved shipping tankers, transportation routes, and computer/communication networks which created complex, worldwide just-in-time inventory and removed the inherent manufacturing advantages that the Great Lakes region had at one time;

The same argument could have been and was made for Great Britain's existing manufacturing and shipping base in the early years of The U.S.A. However, fortunately, protectionist saved the future of America and built a strong republic that Free Trade idiots are pissing away!

4. Union and management of Great Lakes-based manufacturers being slow to adapt to quality measures demanded by consumers... and by the time they came around, it was too late because consumers had already been branded to love and be loyal to their Sonys, Hondas, Toyotas, etc.

Quality? I don't know how to explain this to someone like you, but I think Toyotas and Hondas are crap. However, I do think Japan is extremely nationalistic in its' trade policies and America hasn't been for a long time. The Media has bashed American Industry for a long time; they are just Anti-American.

5. Inability to attract and retain the most recent generation of college educated workforce due the reasons listed above (along with other reasons such as fears about crime, weather, political corruption, etc.), which creates a snowball effect on everything else.

They chase jobs. However, you are talking about professionals. Well, Cleveland still attracts a lot of those. Of course, it would attract a lot more, if it had a well paid working class to provide professional services to!

Cleveland will come back. I'm sure of it. In fact, there is a pretty good chance we'll be banking on it. But it sure as heck won't come back on the wings of protectionism and re-segregation (or whatever you called it). It will come back because it will come around and compete on the same level that other great cities compete, and it has the geography, the history, and the legacy infrastructure (it's cheaper to maintain legacy infrastructure than to continue sprawling like Vegas/Phoenix) to do well going forward. That and people will eventually realize that it is important to be closer to abundant resources of clean energy and clean water.

No, if Cleveland "comes back," it will be because it either got so freaking cheap to make stuff here, that shipping didn't make any sense anymore or we erected trade barriers of one kind or another. Remember, currency manipulation is one of those modern kinds of trade barriers that countries use to get around "Free Trade."

[s.tipping]

Remember the Fenwy Hotel on E. 105th and Chester (I think?)? Remember Eriside Institute? What happened to those places?

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by s.tipping

Remember the Fenwy Hotel on E. 105th and Chester (I think?)? Remember Eriside Institute? What happened to those places?

Knocked down by the Clinic??

[dustin183]

cleveland you need to clean your sh*t up. why is it so hard to do? think... think some more... make a plan.

you're loosing people. so reduce infrastructure in a smart way. plan for that.

clean up all the remnants of the old industrial era. get educated people to move there. you have way too many stupid people there. face it and quite living in denial.

[costello_musicman]

This post was from before. but it is definitely worry of reposting


Quote:

I would also like to add to this. My idea is to expand on the positives the city has today, while pulling from the past a little bit (like the RRHOF was able to do). Since I'm not a marketing man, I will simply list what I see as the strengths, and hopefully someone else could build off them:

Present positives that could be expanded upon:
1) Cleveland Orchestra consistently ranked 3rd or 4th in the world.
2) Playhouse Square second largest performing arts sector in the US--behind only Broadway in NYC
3) Dense urban structure -- city feel
4) Sports fan Pride. Voted best sport's fan in the country by numerous sources (always in NFL polls)--sporting venues, etc
5) Nightlife - E.4th, W.6th, Little Italy, W.25th, Tremont, etc
6) Vast industrial infrastructure (current and potential use)
7) Medical mecca of the world! (at least one of the top five)
8) Fastest growing Bio-technology in the country--#1 in the midwest, mostly thanks to Bio-Enterprise's recruiting and results
9) The RTA system.
10) University Circle – which is thankfully going to be expanded soon.
11) Very, very cheap cost of living.
12) CWRU, Unversity Hospitals and other country leading research facilities.


Past that could be built on today:
1) Inventor of Superman! -- museum, giant artwork or something...next to Lebron maybe??
2) The Arcade—better promote it being the first indoor shopping mall in America.
3) Firsts: electric traffic signal, X-ray machine (and other medical devices), etc
4) Here another cool like for Cleveland’s firsts: Cleveland Firsts

Ideas for the future:
1) Better utilize the lakefront--everyone and their mother's idea.
2) Improve schools -- uniforms is actually a good start. Funding wise, there is enough money; it unfortunately has to come from role models and family values to do any better. Theories on that are endless, but Harlem maybe a good model to look at (I believe they started with preschools on up and had goals to get them into Harvard, Yale, etc and return back to the neighborhoods--it worked/is working).
3) I know this is a touchy subject, but I really wish Section 8 wasn't so ingrained into our cities expecting values. It really does lower work ethic, self-esteem, and expectance of government handouts (not to mention surrounding land value!), and it creates a cycle of accepting of that lifestyles and now no pride to take care of the properties--fueling so much more. I wish it could somehow be phased out, but again there has to be other idea people and a just cause.
4) Fresh new leaders--corruption will always be, I hope pride in the city will out rule it someday.
5) With the expanding technology research companies, why not utilize the cheap industrial space (and "cheap" labor, compared with the rest of the country), to produce renewable energy materials for the rest of the world...wind turbines, solar panels, etc. Check this out, maybe it has already started?:
German solar company plans HQ in Cleveland - Cleveland Business News – The Latest Breaking News, Earnings Reports and Stories from The Plain Dealer
6) I thought of this crazy idea today...Since a majority of Cleveland's community problems seem to be related to lack of both parents.family life...maybe the city city can do something to help revolutionize fixing this problem. My idea: (1)The city would give major tax breaks to couples who stayed married. Maybe even continue to increase reward as years progressed. Or, (2) give tax breaks or rewards to companies who reward married employees that live in the Cleveland city limits. Money always seems to be a good incentive and motivator...especially in a city like Cleveland.
7)Last but not least.....PD stop being so damn negative. I know negative stories sell, but geez—If we went 2 weeks with positive stories, I bet it would do wonders.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by dustin183

cleveland you need to clean your sh*t up. why is it so hard to do? think... think some more... make a plan.

you're loosing people. so reduce infrastructure in a smart way. plan for that.

clean up all the remnants of the old industrial era. get educated people to move there. you have way too many stupid people there. face it and quite living in denial.

Obviously its not nearly as easy as you make it out to be. I think youve been playing a little too much "simcity" or somethting. All of that you stated takes extensive planning and millions more dollars than Cleveland can afford at this point.