A dying city? (Cleveland, Dent, Mayfield: foreclosures, lofts, lawyers)

[Pgserge27]

Cle 440,

I somewhat disagree with the fact that most of Cleveland is in very bad shape. Most neighborhoods even now are seeing revitilazation. Right off the bat I can list tremont, ohio city, downtown, university circle, detroit shoreways, old brooklyn, little italy, chinatown, shaker square, edgewater, kamms corner, westpark. That's a lot of Cleveland actually. Now I don't want to say that there are not bad parts. I work in Shaker and live in Detroit Shoreways. I have to drive through the East side everyday. SOme of the worst parts, Kinsman, union, E 117th, the Garden Valley Estates, but in no way do our worst areas compare to Detroit. Also all, I repeat all, major cities have pockets of "war torn" areas, this will never go away. To look at the bad areas of Cleveland and denote that it is all bad would be like looking at Chicago's South Side and saying all of Chicago is extremely poor and downtrodden. On the other hand I don't think that Cleveland doesn't need much continued improvement. THe thing is thought this concept of "dying city" is B.S. This city was getting worse, but I truly beleive it is getting better in just the last five years, you won't see this for a while because all the census numbers are old and the just extrapolate off of those. If anything this city is finally being reborn not dying.

[BelieveInCleve]

Cleveland is currently the 2nd poorest major city in America(Was 1st). It also has the lowest household income of any major city. Roughly 21% of the households are vacant in the city, and thats after 500,000 people have left the city. In other words over 1/3 of residential zoned areas of the city are made up of vacant lots and abandoned buildings. Cleveland was also the 10th most dangerous city (7th the year before) in the US, out of every single city over 75k (about 400 cities in all). If thats not bad, then I dont know what is.

I dont mean to bash Cleveland but the stats speak for themselves. If you have been through all the neighborhoods in the city like I have, then you know how bad it is. They have built a lot of new houses and knocked most of the crumbling ones down though, which is a good start. Most of the projects in the city have been renovated. Also, Detroit is the worst major city in America, so of course nothing will compare to it, but Cleveland is not far behind. Like I said, downtown is one thing but we really need to work on fixing the whole city.

[Chef Boyardee]

1.) Lost tons of jobs to Free Trade. So, area could only support so many people. Hence, many had to leave. Otherwise, unemployment here would be catastrophic or wages would be illegally and unreasonably low.

2.) So called, "Integration" destroyed White neighborhoods and transformed them into Black neighborhoods, in effect transforming them from European like neighborhoods, into African like villages. Which, are "different" and most people don't like the "differences." Although, we are supposed to pretend we appreciate (as in are grateful for) the changes. I think Freud would have considered this a form of mass sado-masochism. Another term for it is, "backward."

3.) People quit having babies (remember, the exception doesn't prove the rule). Less babies = less people. For example, nationally, about 46 million babies have been murdered since 1973. If you don't think it is murder, then you should watch the movie, "A Silent Scream." This takes a toll on population growth. Considering, there's only about 300 million people in The U.S.A. today.

[airics]

oh give me a break! cle440 hit it on the nose!

[Pgserge27]

I'm not going to try and argue that cleveland doesn't have it's rough spots or large swaths of rough areas. I'm not going to say that Cle440 is incorrect in his statements, but top 10 lists are no argument for a bad city. We all know that some cities don't even report there crime to the FBI, i.e chicago, all cities in Texas, and other cities in the south, so they won't even be included in the lists. We may have some of the lowest income, but we also have some of the lowest costs in the nation. The argument, and only argument, I'm trying to make is that it is re-enlivening itself not dying. I agree we can look to the past and say we've lost tons of people since the 60's, but if you look at stats for 2000 and beyond it shows a different story. I won't pretend that it still isn't getting smaller but it is definitely shifting. And before this becomes a blog war don't mis-interpret anything I'm saying, but read it carefully and you'll see I'm generally agreeing with you.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Pgserge27

I'm not going to try and argue that cleveland doesn't have it's rough spots or large swaths of rough areas. I'm not going to say that Cle440 is incorrect in his statements, but top 10 lists are no argument for a bad city. We all know that some cities don't even report there crime to the FBI, i.e chicago, all cities in Texas, and other cities in the south, so they won't even be included in the lists. We may have some of the lowest income, but we also have some of the lowest costs in the nation. The argument, and only argument, I'm trying to make is that it is re-enlivening itself not dying. I agree we can look to the past and say we've lost tons of people since the 60's, but if you look at stats for 2000 and beyond it shows a different story. I won't pretend that it still isn't getting smaller but it is definitely shifting. And before this becomes a blog war don't mis-interpret anything I'm saying, but read it carefully and you'll see I'm generally agreeing with you.

Beyond the healthcare boom, do you think this has any legs?

[airics]

you mention lowest costs in the nation, name them! It's not property taxes, income taxes, utilities, entertainment, or salestax. Possibly housing but when you add in the property tax, thats blown out the window.. Plus we (cleveland) have Russo who does not want the homes reappraised in 2009 due to declining values and less tax rec'd.

[dollycool]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

If you plug the toilet up, don't expect the landord to come over and fix it; do it yourself or pay a plumber yourself! I'm not talking about "roofing"

excuse you?!You just confirmed the typical cleveland 'look- at me -tough -act' whats with the rude tough act? THELANDLORD IS LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE TO FIX ANY AND ALL REPAIRS IN A PROMPT MANNER, PER LEASE AGREEMENT.

[airics]

well fine, you have an idiot landlord that doesnt use a standard lease.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

1.) Lost tons of jobs to Free Trade. So, area could only support so many people. Hence, many had to leave. Otherwise, unemployment here would be catastrophic or wages would be illegally and unreasonably low.

2.) So called, "Integration" destroyed White neighborhoods and transformed them into Black neighborhoods, in effect transforming them from European like neighborhoods, into African like villages. Which, are "different" and most people don't like the "differences." Although, we are supposed to pretend we appreciate (as in are grateful for) the changes. I think Freud would have considered this a form of mass sado-masochism. Another term for it is, "backward."

3.) People quit having babies (remember, the exception doesn't prove the rule). Less babies = less people. For example, nationally, about 46 million babies have been murdered since 1973. If you don't think it is murder, then you should watch the movie, "A Silent Scream." This takes a toll on population growth. Considering, there's only about 300 million people in The U.S.A. today.

Every city in the country has to deal with these factors you point out. Assuming your theories are correct, why has Cleveland been less equipped to deal with them than most other cities?