A dying city? (Columbus, Cleveland: home, dorms, buy)

[Pgserge27]

Well for one, entertainment is quite cheap compared to where you are talking about. Go to N.Y.C. and buy a beer or go to a movie or a ball game, it will easily cost double. This is one of the cheapest locations in the nation for gas, water, sewer. I'm not sure about electric costs but obviously natural gas is cheaper (supply vs. demand) I can't talk to the taxes, we'll all agree those are out of control, but living in Cleveland you can easily get 15 year tax breaks, and of course the real estate is a steal around here. You can't truthfully say adding in real estate taxes evens out our real estate costs to the rest of the country, it's not even close, many parts of the country you will pay three to four times (conservatively) what you would pay here for the same property.

Also my arguments still is not anything else except for the fact that we are not a dying city but a city being reborn. Yes healthcare is big, but also everything that will come along with this. Construction industry, architects, food services, lawyers, all the pieces and parts for the new medical equipment, secretaries, information management, IT, I can go on and on and on. The point is healthcare ends up being an umbrella for every other industry that is needed to support it.

[airics]

so now you are comparing to the most expensive (nyc or la)...i am comparing to las vegas as i have a home here (mayfield full time) and 2 in las vegas, one rental and one vacation.... so lets compare
tax breaks - of course they have them in CLEVELAND, nobody wants to live in the city of cleveland except in the lofts.. try housing..
property taxes themselves - (mayfield 150k house) $3700 per year (vegas rental 270k house) 1700 per year (vegas vacation house based on 2007 valued at 478k) $2900 per year
water/sewer - cleveland i pay $190 per quarter vegas - $22 per month
electric - cleveland averages about $125 per month - vegas the same except in july and august $270
natural gas - cleveland - basically nothing until winter jan, feb, march $500 p/ month vegas - basically nothing..

also as for real estate taxes, my friend has been purchasing hud homes for next to nothing (a 25k home still pays 900 -1200 a half)
real estate, a steal? of course it is, nobody wants it.. even the foreclosures arent budging here, can't even get an offer!

im not trying to bash cleveland either, but if you are going to compare, at least be realistic... ive lived here for over 40 yrs, am i ready to leave? of course, i'm just getting all the ducks in a row.

[Pgserge27]

All right you just don't seem to get it airics, I stated originally that I didn't want to get into an blog war. They're stupid and get nowhere, my thoughts were that I don't believe that Cleveland is dying. I'm not talking about Mayfield. Of course the taxes there are even worse than Cleveland, and to the point that nobody wants to live in the city of Cleveland, that's not even an argument. I want to live in the city so that argument is dead. Why is downtown Cleveland one of the fastest growing downtowns in the nation? Why are many neighborhoods seeing revitalization as I stated before.
If you're argument is to reassure yourself that you are making the right decision by moving to Las Vegas, the area of the nation that has one of the highest foreclosure rates, way ahead of Cleveland, than you can continue to argue your points.

Oh and by the way just so you know get a halfway energy efficient house and you're bills wouldn't be that high. I have a 2500 square foot house, my water and sewer is about $50-75 every three months. My gas never goes over $200 in the winter, and my average electric is $60 a month.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by airics

so now you are comparing to the most expensive (nyc or la)...i am comparing to las vegas as i have a home here (mayfield full time) and 2 in las vegas, one rental and one vacation.... so lets compare
tax breaks - of course they have them in CLEVELAND, nobody wants to live in the city of cleveland except in the lofts.. try housing..
property taxes themselves - (mayfield 150k house) $3700 per year (vegas rental 270k house) 1700 per year (vegas vacation house based on 2007 valued at 478k) $2900 per year
water/sewer - cleveland i pay $190 per quarter vegas - $22 per month
electric - cleveland averages about $125 per month - vegas the same except in july and august $270
natural gas - cleveland - basically nothing until winter jan, feb, march $500 p/ month vegas - basically nothing..

also as for real estate taxes, my friend has been purchasing hud homes for next to nothing (a 25k home still pays 900 -1200 a half)
real estate, a steal? of course it is, nobody wants it.. even the foreclosures arent budging here, can't even get an offer!

im not trying to bash cleveland either, but if you are going to compare, at least be realistic... ive lived here for over 40 yrs, am i ready to leave? of course, i'm just getting all the ducks in a row.

I agree that Cleveland's taxes are too high, but it is unfair to compare it to Vegas which is subsidized by gambling and is basically a whole different animal. Personally I would never live in Vegas for the same reason that I don't $*** where I eat (excuse the crass analogy), but to each their own. And yes, I know that there is more to Nevada than the casinos.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by The Cactus Leaguer

Every city in the country has to deal with these factors you point out. Assuming your theories are correct, why has Cleveland been less equipped to deal with them than most other cities?

I think Free Trade, Slow Population Growth/Mass Murder and Integration has hit The Country hard.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Pgserge27

Well for one, entertainment is quite cheap compared to where you are talking about. Go to N.Y.C. and buy a beer or go to a movie or a ball game, it will easily cost double. This is one of the cheapest locations in the nation for gas, water, sewer. I'm not sure about electric costs but obviously natural gas is cheaper (supply vs. demand) I can't talk to the taxes, we'll all agree those are out of control, but living in Cleveland you can easily get 15 year tax breaks, and of course the real estate is a steal around here. You can't truthfully say adding in real estate taxes evens out our real estate costs to the rest of the country, it's not even close, many parts of the country you will pay three to four times (conservatively) what you would pay here for the same property.

Also my arguments still is not anything else except for the fact that we are not a dying city but a city being reborn. Yes healthcare is big, but also everything that will come along with this. Construction industry, architects, food services, lawyers, all the pieces and parts for the new medical equipment, secretaries, information management, IT, I can go on and on and on. The point is healthcare ends up being an umbrella for every other industry that is needed to support it.

I tend to agree that the cost of living here is low. However, I do think property taxes are ridiculous. Of course, I detest our public school system. Not only is it debauched, but it is exorbitantly priced and never stops crying poor Still, this is a national problem.

There are areas of Cleveland, like Eddy Road and St.Clair, that have public schools, with high paid staff and nice facilities, but virtually no law enforcement. Gangs practically kill at will and often times in very cruel ways. Not to sanitize it, but that represents a poor use of resources. Crime should be priority number one.

In regards to The HealthCare Ka-Boom!, the industries that are supporting it, would appear to be DEPENDENT on it. Hence, when da boom go bust, what's left?

[airics]

another problem is that Mayfield Hts. has high property taxes.. Didn't mind (well actually i did) because the schools WERE top notch. Now the schools are only average, so i imagine a tax increase will be on the ballot soon. I dont even have kids so it irritates me even more.

[Chef Boyardee]

Property Taxes are getting to be like paying rent, on top of a mortgage. It's outrageous. And what do you get for it, I mean as a "community." They teach kids: Evolution, Socialism, Feminism, Multiculturalism and Gay Pride. So, regardless of academics, the schools are shot. Still, you get that all over.

[pirate_lafitte]

I thought we were talking about Cleveland being a dying city.

[NewToCA]

Forbes has Cleveland on their top ten list for dying cities, and in reading the article it appears that they were rating the entire metro area(s):

Another brutal statistic all the cities share is a diminishing population. So far this decade, 115,000 people have left Cleveland, for other climes.

None of these cities now face the huge declines in real estate prices seen by Phoenix, Miami or Las Vegas, where the Case-Shiller Home Price Index shows nearly 30% declines from a year ago. Detroit is off only about 15%, Cleveland only 8%. Don't call it a bright spot. Prices never went up in the first place.


America's Fastest-Dying Cities - Forbes.com