A dying city? (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati: city hall, low crime, how much)

[Steve36]

I do hold a section 8 voucher and I do not tear up my homes or bring crime wherever I go.

*golf clap* Congratulations to you MzLady for actually using the system for what it was intended for but realize you are not necessarily in the majority. You are one example, I'm sure many here can provide a counter example where section 8 voucher holders (black or white) have caused problems in their neighborhood. It should be logical that homeowners hold a grudge against those (black or white) who move into their neighborhood but who, not being owners and therefore having no permanent stake in the well-being of the neighborhood, bring the values of the area down. Don't forget that "crutch" you are using to gain control of your life isn't being paid for by the magical housing fairy, it's being paid for by the evil "racists" homeowners (black and white) who see their neighborhoods destroyed by people who's rent they are helping to pay.

[Clevelander17]

To expand upon Steve's comments, a lot of Section 8 people don't take "ownership," if you will, of their homes and neighborhoods. They take it for granted and don't seem to care about their behavior or how it affects others, including letting their property deteriorate. That's not everyone, of course, but unfortunately it's a large enough chunk that the Section 8 reputation is not completely unwarranted. But kudos to the one poster for using the helping hand to improve herself. Perhaps if she knows any others who have Section 8 and see that they're not behaving properly she can speak up and let them know that they're ruining it for her and everyone else who is using the system to make themselves better.

Section 8 is a government program that started with noble intentions. Unfortunately I think it's mostly been a failure. You can only do so much for people that just don't care. Hopefully in the near future the program is eliminated or at least scaled back, because it's playing a large role in ruining communities.

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by MzLady30

I do hold a section 8 voucher and I do not tear up my homes or bring crime wherever I go. For you guys to sit here and maliciously state that section 8 tenants are all bad, I thought the racial stuff died years ago. You may not want to say that black people are the cause, but that is exactly what you are saying. I am a full-time single mother, full-time college student, with an associate degree already, on the road to another degree because I couldn't find a job in that field. Some women use section 8 as a cruch to gain control of their lives. So for you to sit here and blame the downfall of cleveland on section 8 tenants is nothing but racial!

Wow...I hope that you are not talking to me because I already explained what I meant. I already said that I understand that everyone who lives in a section 8 house does not commit crimes and involved with drugs and other things, but the fact is that Im positive that people in Section 8 housing are much more likely to commit crimes than the people who own the house. Me and my family also used to be section 8 tenants when we were living in Central Lorain and South Elyria, and I am white...

That being said I have seen section 8 and rentals being put into nice neighborhoods in Elyria and Lorain and seen the bad that can come from them. Everybody in those areas are fed up with it because the people who live in those houses are a lot more likely to commit crimes in the neighborhood and help to lower the land value of everybody in the neighborhood. Section 8 housing is not a good idea in all to put in nice areas, unless they can find a way to only allow people who have no history of crime or something like that. Also the fact that the people in section 8 are lower income does not help the neighborhood.

[Chef Boyardee]

I think the major reason Cleveland is "shrinking" is the loss of jobs, beginning with manufacturing, but spreading to virtually all of Cleveland's industries. I think the reason for those losses is obvious: "Free Trade."

As far as taxes go, we used to fund our government with tariffs on imported goods. Now we don't. Hence the phrase, "Free trade." Of course, anyone who's lived in Cleveland since the 1970's knows, it ain't "Free."

As far as race is concerned: if White people were allowed to have their own neighborhoods, they would and they would be happy about that. However, I do not think White people abandoned Cleveland because of Blacks; they left for better jobs and a future for their children. If they had to put up with integration in order to get good jobs for themselves and their kids, they would. Although, they will never, ever like it. Nor should they have to.

[Kasey77]

I was born and raised in the south subs of Cleveland. Some of the best years of my life were spent there. It was beautiful to me. The greenery, the seasons. Downtown was great. And the people. Great great people!
I went back last summer and spent several months back home. I was so so saddened to see what has happened. I went downtown and it looked like a worn torn city. The subs were not much better. The roads were terrible, many places closed down.
I want to move back to the area. But, because of the economics, I am not sure this is a wise thing to do.
When I was back, their was an article in the paper about Cleveland at one time in the early 1900's being a more vibrant city than New York!
Today, the people even seemed depressed there. Their is a pal of depression that is over the area.
I hope Cleveland can turn itself around. Just does not seem likely in the near future. Although, I am not living there now and do not know economically what is happening.
Seems a lot of migration to the south and the west.
Really do hope Cleveland comes back. It can be a wonderful place to live.

[captaincatfish]

I've been reading a lot of the posts on this and other Cleveland threads, and I have come to a conclusion: there are, truth be told major things wrong with my hometown---that is established fact...

But I am also of the opinion that Clevelanders as a whole are hardy, tough, determined people, and a city that is filled with folk like that can go nowhere but up...there are those that say that the city is dying and/or dead, and to those folks I say---you are entitled to your opinion, and those of you who left did so for varied reasons...I won't sit and preach and try to change your minds, nor will I 'blast' you for speaking your minds...

But I will say this---please don't waste energy excoriating those who have both chosen to dig in and make a stand and better Cleveland, and those who left and are returning because the city is 'home' to them, and home always calls you back...I've been living in Southwest Ohio (Middletown, between Cincinnati and Dayton) since August '05, and I've only returned to the city proper maybe 2 or 3 times since. And I won't lie or sugarcoat---the things I saw saddened me to no end...but that sadness was tempered by the knowledge that there are STILL those who believe in the city, and are NOT convinced that her death is imminent...

To sum up, my sis came to visit me over Memorial Day weekend, and we talked for hours on childhood memories and the state of the city today...she, frankly is of a mind to leave the city once she can get our parent's house (where she lives) sold in Cleveland Heights...my wife and I took her on a tour of Middletown and showed her parts of Cincinnati---and know that neither of THOSE places are wart-free, but she liked what she saw...I still buy the Sunday Plain Dealer on occasion (gotta wait til Tuesdays to get it LOL) and have toyed with the notion of getting a subscription to Cleveland Magazine, so I keep an ear to the ground about the city...would I ever return myself? My wife asked me this one night when we were discussing 'what would you do if I passed away'? Heck of a time to think of your hometown, I know LOL, but she posed a good question, and I've been mulling it ever since...but I think I gave a clue further back in my post when I stated 'home always calls you back'...Cleveland, you may not shine as brightly as you once did, but you will ALWAYS be home to me

[BelieveInCleve]

I can definitely understand what all of you are saying. But I dont think Cleveland is really a dying city anymore, it already hit rock bottom. From Cleveland going from being in competition with NYC from 1900-1940, then to the huge downfall it went through from 1960-2000 is pretty bad. Losing over half the population, and now all of these reports for how bad the city is. Got so bad that it was named 7th worst in the country for crime, 1st in poverty 3 or 4 times and never far down the list, decay, etc... The city has already hit rock bottom so I cant see it going anywhere but up.

Cleveland is just going through rough times now. It hurts me a lot to go down street like St. Clair/Superior/Kinsman and most of the major roads in Cleveland are filled with run down/abandoned buildings. Cleveland cant really go any farther down. Its nothing but up for now. The citys population will level out soon and then it should start gaining again. The jobs will come in and the poverty and crime rate will continue to go down. The sports teams have already been doing good for the last couple of years and we will have a championship within the next 2 years. Might just seem like a dream but I believe that all of this will happen.

[Kasey77]

Hey Catfish,
Great reply! I am doing the "what if I die thing, too"
Home does always call you back. At least it has always called me.
Some of my oldest and dearest friends back there tell me not to come back. They have never left, so they do not know what it is like to always love the city you grew up in. But, I get " are you crazy" from them.
I knew las summer when I was there that if I would move there and dig in, it would be okay. I have missed a lot over the years.

[Chef Boyardee]

I don't want to be the bad guy, but Cleveland's destiny is not being decided by Clevelanders; it is being decided by Washington. So far, they are giving us the bleeding of the century! (handouts may be nice, but they don't count) The bad news is: this does not appear to be stopping from either party; both are super-committed to "Free Trade." Remember, if all the stuff you buy comes from somewhere else, then your place ain't got no jobs. More bad news: our Nation's Chief Accountant recently told us that Medicare will bankrupt America and he wasn't exaggerating. So far, both parties are ignoring the problem, but they can't for long. The Cleveland Clinic is far and away, Cleveland's largest employer; if I remember correctly, it employes more Clevelanders than GM and Ford did in their heyday. Our second largest employer is University Hospital. Baby Boomers have begun retirement (they'll be enrolling in Medicare). This should be a boom for Cleveland Clinic and University. Thus, it should be good for Cleveland. However, their will be huge spending cuts. Technology is making it easier and easier to "offshore" Medical services. A doctor in India can examine your x-rays just as easily as a doctor in Cleveland, but much, much cheaper or in the language of Free Traders: "efficiently". There will be tremendous pressure on mega-hospitals to do this; they will succumb to it. Should you drop out of Nursing School? No! Sell your healthcare stock? Are You Nuts! But don't expect Medical to bring Cleveland out of depression and expect lots of cost cutting measures at hospitals. More bad news: all of my customer service calls used to be to American Workers; today, very few are and most are going to email. Customer Service is a lost Cleveland industry. Even more bad news: Mexican Immigrants are pouring over the border; that is not an exaggeration. They will work for less money. That will depress wages.

The Good News: Our government consists of about 300 people who could change their minds. If they do, Cleveland should come back! Regardless of wether you think your vote counts or not, you should register and whine to your elected officials about Trade. Otherwise, you are a bad Clevelander!

What you should expect: further decline, until our National Trade Policy undergoes radical/fundamental change.

When this will occur: tomorrow, never, someday; I don't know.

China and Mexico devalued their currencies and experienced job growth. Although, Mexicans found it impossible to afford U.S. products anymore. Is this going to happen in America; is it happening now? No. China and Japan won't let it happen and we won't force them to, because we believe in "Free Trade" for us and "Whatever Kind of Trade They Want" for them. In other words, we behave like, The World's Doormat. In return we get cheap goods, but they get our good jobs. This deal sucks for us and is good for them. We do it because we believe in "Free Trade," like it is some kind of dogma that can never be questioned. This is suicide. We have the mentality of a vain and skinny 15 year old girl who is starving herself, because she thinks she is fat. We are debauched.

[saba2r]

Some "deterioriation" can be blamed on people getting fat and rich off the rent money of others (and Section 8 money).

I have friends in Cleve Hts who are disabled and gave up owning a home because they couldn't take care of it. They now rent and they are embarrassed by how the property looks. They can't afford to hire people to take care of it. It was supposed to be the LANDLORD'S responsibility (it's even in the lease). Some of these fat cats let these properties go, don't want to put money into them, and then everyone else blames the renters for how it looks.