A dying city? (Cleveland, Orient: 2010, health insurance, go bankrupt)

[CortlandGirl79]

Well, I don't know Columbus real estate very well. When my friend bought a condo there in 2003 there were several bids on the condo she ended up buying. I'm sure there probably are still situations like this in C-bus. It probably all depends on location and type of house. I'm betting you won't get the types of discounts in C-bus as you'll get in the rest of the state, but it's still cheaper than most places.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by chikaranotori

hmm, ChefBoyardee, are you card-carrying KKK member, or do you just do this for fun on the weekends?

I mean, if you really hate the thought of black, Hispanic, any-other-race-as-you-perceive-as-a-threat-to-your- little-world moving in, why not start a community for the white people whom you approve of. You can name it WASPville or something. of course, be careful now... you might get some blacks trying to "pass" because we all know how the 1/16th law works, don't we?

even though a minority, i am sure there are more of your kind out there. and that is probably what is killing the city more than the "danger" of integration

I have been trying to follow this thread and am really lost. However, I am interested in what is perceived to have happened in Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights etc. Shaker Heights has always had a very wide mix of housing costs. There was always affordable housing, middle income housing and very expensive housing. I am not sure that has changed all that much even playing the race card. I think the economy slumped, many people (of all races) bought what they could't afford and thus, prices are coming down all over. This is especially true of Shaker's middle and lower priced housing. Remember too, that Shaker and Cleveland Heights, with their affordable housing have very high taxes. Thus, your 200K home is costing you the same as a 300K home in the outskirts.
Can you both explain to me the banter back and forth? Is someone saying that Shaker has too much diversity? One of the reasons my husband and I want to move back is b/c of that diversity. We are white, and have a Hispanic child. I want him to see everyone, and not be isolated from reality, humanity, etc.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by LewLew

I have been trying to follow this thread and am really lost. However, I am interested in what is perceived to have happened in Shaker Heights, Cleveland Heights etc. Shaker Heights has always had a very wide mix of housing costs. There was always affordable housing, middle income housing and very expensive housing. I am not sure that has changed all that much even playing the race card. I think the economy slumped, many people (of all races) bought what they could't afford and thus, prices are coming down all over. This is especially true of Shaker's middle and lower priced housing. Remember too, that Shaker and Cleveland Heights, with their affordable housing have very high taxes. Thus, your 200K home is costing you the same as a 300K home in the outskirts.
Can you both explain to me the banter back and forth? Is someone saying that Shaker has too much diversity? One of the reasons my husband and I want to move back is b/c of that diversity. We are white, and have a Hispanic child. I want him to see everyone, and not be isolated from reality, humanity, etc.

In my opinion, the Heights area, Cleveland Heights in particular, has done some things that has led to some of its current problems. I guess you can be "too open" to diversity, as bad as that sounds, and that's sort of Cleveland Heights' problem. What I mean is that parts of CH (and SH) have become very rundown, with high rates of rental properties and many of those being occupied by Section 8 residents. Now it's worth pointing out that some of these changes were inevitable, as the population has naturally shifted further eastward. Urban sprawl is an issue that almost every big city in the country has had to deal with, and Cleveland is no exception.

However, it's almost like Cleveland Heights welcomed these problems with open arms and now they're starting to regret it. Shaker Heights has seen some of that, too, but they've been much more proactive in fighting it. Both cities will remain alright for the foreseeable future, because both have outstanding housing stocks and areas of stable wealth. But it's not something that either city can afford to get complacent about. For a number of reasons, University Heights isn't really in the same boat as CH or SH, but UH still struggles because of (in my opinion) its affiliation with the CH-UH school district. Around 70% of kids in UH attend private schools and UH residents haven't voted in favor of a school levy in at least 15 years.

[LewLew]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

In my opinion, the Heights area, Cleveland Heights in particular, has done some things that has led to some of its current problems. I guess you can be "too open" to diversity, as bad as that sounds, and that's sort of Cleveland Heights' problem. What I mean is that parts of CH (and SH) have become very rundown, with high rates of rental properties and many of those being occupied by Section 8 residents. Now it's worth pointing out that some of these changes were inevitable, as the population has naturally shifted further eastward. Urban sprawl is an issue that almost every big city in the country has had to deal with, and Cleveland is no exception.

However, it's almost like Cleveland Heights welcomed these problems with open arms and now they're starting to regret it. Shaker Heights has seen some of that, too, but they've been much more proactive in fighting it. Both cities will remain alright for the foreseeable future, because both have outstanding housing stocks and areas of stable wealth. But it's not something that either city can afford to get complacent about. For a number of reasons, University Heights isn't really in the same boat as CH or SH, but UH still struggles because of (in my opinion) its affiliation with the CH-UH school district. Around 70% of kids in UH attend private schools and UH residents haven't voted in favor of a school levy in at least 15 years.

Ahhh, that was something Shaker always voted for. Up go the taxes, but no one minded if it was for the schools. Hmmmm, I wonder if the new Shaker Board and Mayor are going to get it all back together. I completely know what you mean about being "too" open to diversity. We started to fight that back when I went to school, and the bordering Cleveland kids felt they should get bussed into our school b/c they technically lived on the border. It really started in the late 80's early 90's from what I remember.
Yes, almost every "once beautiful" duplex is now on the foreclosure table. I know there are a lot of grants out there being offered for people to buy and rebuild that once nice area.
Does Shaker have what some other US cities have where a certain percentage of the housing must be Section 8 occupied? I have a sneaking suspicion that now is a good time for my husband to get in, as the housing options are so vast, and if Shaker can pull itself together, we'll be in a good situation. My only fear is that they will trip over themselves and their good judgment with too much unification. It's all good, but can backfire on you.
Ok, UH doesn't have the grimey issues?, but we'd be looking at private ed?

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by CortlandGirl79

Well, I don't know Columbus real estate very well. When my friend bought a condo there in 2003 there were several bids on the condo she ended up buying. I'm sure there probably are still situations like this in C-bus. It probably all depends on location and type of house. I'm betting you won't get the types of discounts in C-bus as you'll get in the rest of the state, but it's still cheaper than most places.

It is cheaper to live in Cleveland and the Mahoning Valley area. The housing stock has gotten cheaper. Part of it is that fewer people are buying houses and more people are leaving.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by LewLew

Ahhh, that was something Shaker always voted for. Up go the taxes, but no one minded if it was for the schools. Hmmmm, I wonder if the new Shaker Board and Mayor are going to get it all back together. I completely know what you mean about being "too" open to diversity. We started to fight that back when I went to school, and the bordering Cleveland kids felt they should get bussed into our school b/c they technically lived on the border. It really started in the late 80's early 90's from what I remember.
Yes, almost every "once beautiful" duplex is now on the foreclosure table. I know there are a lot of grants out there being offered for people to buy and rebuild that once nice area.
Does Shaker have what some other US cities have where a certain percentage of the housing must be Section 8 occupied? I have a sneaking suspicion that now is a good time for my husband to get in, as the housing options are so vast, and if Shaker can pull itself together, we'll be in a good situation. My only fear is that they will trip over themselves and their good judgment with too much unification. It's all good, but can backfire on you.
Ok, UH doesn't have the grimey issues?, but we'd be looking at private ed?

I don't think SH or CH has any mandate on what percentage of the housing must be Section 8 occupied. I just think that certain policies and encouragement by area activist "associations," if you will, have led to people living in homes or neighborhoods that they weren't ready to occupy. If you catch my drift.

That said, it's hard to predict what the future holds. For whatever reason, Shaker Heights has always probably been, of all Cleveland's inner-ring suburbs, the best at staving off the problems that its neighbors have had to deal with. I would suspect that that will continue for at least a little while, until there are big changes in the way people choose where they live in this country (for instance, if gas prices shoot up again and remain consistently high).

As for University Heights, this is actually where I live now. Lots of families, and most of them send their kids to private schools. The area is very stable, especially the parts near Gesu Church and John Carroll University. Many people who live in the area are affiliated with one or both of those Catholic institutions. There are large pockets of beautiful brick homes in the area near and along the city's southern border with Shaker Heights. However these homes are mostly identical to each other and don't have the character that the homes in Shaker Heights and Cleveland Heights have. UH is not a bad option, however, if I had kids (or if do some day and still live here), I would be very hesistant to send them to the local public schools.

University Heights would do itself a big favor to somehow end its affiliation with Cleveland Heights schools and allign itself with either Shaker Heights or Beachwood. But the process to do so is very difficult and it probably will never happen.

[Synopsis]

Originally Posted by captaincatfish

I've been reading a lot of the posts on this and other Cleveland threads, and I have come to a conclusion: there are, truth be told major things wrong with my hometown---that is established fact...

But I am also of the opinion that Clevelanders as a whole are hardy, tough, determined people, and a city that is filled with folk like that can go nowhere but up...there are those that say that the city is dying and/or dead, and to those folks I say---you are entitled to your opinion, and those of you who left did so for varied reasons...I won't sit and preach and try to change your minds, nor will I 'blast' you for speaking your minds...

But I will say this---please don't waste energy excoriating those who have both chosen to dig in and make a stand and better Cleveland, and those who left and are returning because the city is 'home' to them, and home always calls you back...I've been living in Southwest Ohio (Middletown, between Cincinnati and Dayton) since August '05, and I've only returned to the city proper maybe 2 or 3 times since. And I won't lie or sugarcoat---the things I saw saddened me to no end...but that sadness was tempered by the knowledge that there are STILL those who believe in the city, and are NOT convinced that her death is imminent...

To sum up, my sis came to visit me over Memorial Day weekend, and we talked for hours on childhood memories and the state of the city today...she, frankly is of a mind to leave the city once she can get our parent's house (where she lives) sold in Cleveland Heights...my wife and I took her on a tour of Middletown and showed her parts of Cincinnati---and know that neither of THOSE places are wart-free, but she liked what she saw...I still buy the Sunday Plain Dealer on occasion (gotta wait til Tuesdays to get it LOL) and have toyed with the notion of getting a subscription to Cleveland Magazine, so I keep an ear to the ground about the city...would I ever return myself? My wife asked me this one night when we were discussing 'what would you do if I passed away'? Heck of a time to think of your hometown, I know LOL, but she posed a good question, and I've been mulling it ever since...but I think I gave a clue further back in my post when I stated 'home always calls you back'...Cleveland, you may not shine as brightly as you once did, but you will ALWAYS be home to me

That's a great attitude; one that would benefit your home city. Better times are ahead for Cleveland if more people like yourself move there or stay there.

[ElleV]

Originally Posted by MzLady30

I do hold a section 8 voucher and I do not tear up my homes or bring crime wherever I go. For you guys to sit here and maliciously state that section 8 tenants are all bad, I thought the racial stuff died years ago. You may not want to say that black people are the cause, but that is exactly what you are saying. I am a full-time single mother, full-time college student, with an associate degree already, on the road to another degree because I couldn't find a job in that field. Some women use section 8 as a cruch to gain control of their lives. So for you to sit here and blame the downfall of cleveland on section 8 tenants is nothing but racial!

MzLady30, the comments about section 8 were not racist they might sound prejudice but I did not read any comments that could be associated with race. In regards to Section 8 properties, as a property manager for section 8 single family homes. It is actually the owners of those properties that do not take care of the properties the way they do with there other properties. I was a leasing agent for a company that owns properties in Shaker that are two family homes and not even section 8 but they only do the bare minimum to keep these homes from getting violations. I have to say the apartments in these two family homes look beat up and run down from the inside and homely from the outside. I think the problem is with the two family homes as well. And as far as the tenants in the section 8 properties they were no worse then other tenants.

In regards to the original post, Cleveland sucks all the way around not just housing -everything- I look forward to leaving this city and never ever looking back! ever!

[ElleV]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

To expand upon Steve's comments, a lot of Section 8 people don't take "ownership," if you will, of their homes and neighborhoods. They take it for granted and don't seem to care about their behavior or how it affects others, including letting their property deteriorate. That's not everyone, of course, but unfortunately it's a large enough chunk that the Section 8 reputation is not completely unwarranted. But kudos to the one poster for using the helping hand to improve herself. Perhaps if she knows any others who have Section 8 and see that they're not behaving properly she can speak up and let them know that they're ruining it for her and everyone else who is using the system to make themselves better.

Section 8 is a government program that started with noble intentions. Unfortunately I think it's mostly been a failure. You can only do so much for people that just don't care. Hopefully in the near future the program is eliminated or at least scaled back, because it's playing a large role in ruining communities.

Section 8 vouchers are used for rental properties so there is a limit to the tenants "ownership responsibilities" As I mentioned before I worked for a property owner who rented only section 8 properties and he did the bare minimum upkeep to these properties like most do. The tenants would call constantly about work that needed to be done and I remember going to properties and looking at previous work that was done and I couldn't believe what a awful job had been done. And the reason for this is that owners hire cheap labor who do crappy work and the owner doesn't care because they have the mentality that they are guaranteed a check every month. And as long as they pass the yearly inspections who gives a damn.

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by ElleV

In regards to the original post, Cleveland sucks all the way around not just housing -everything- I look forward to leaving this city and never ever looking back! ever!

When people make comments like these, it's hard to take anything else they say seriously.

As for the responsibilities of Section 8 holders, I think that's irrelevant. People need to take pride in where they live. And rental owners need to take care of their properties. This mindset, that it doesn't matter because it's not their responsibility or something is guaranteed, is why Section 8 is failing as a program. The idea was that perhaps low-income people would benefit from living in nicer homes/areas and would acclimate to their surroundings. It's clear that this is not happening.