A dying city? (Cleveland, Union: find a job, college, taxes)

[1watertiger]

airics,i hear you brother.... to bad the "powers to be" wouldnt just give every adult $100,000-$150,000 to spend,pay-off debt,invest or what-ever..imo this would stimulate the economy immediately and we as taxpayers would know exactly where my/our money (the tax dollars) are going...and we would show the receipt for what we did.. and even if this idea fails, then we could try the current "stimulas/bailout plan the honest lol politicians passed.. the plan that is filled with pork,bs,favors,no over-sight and no receipts..

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

It seems obvious that The Medical Industry supports CH, UH and Shaker. I would not expect Cleveland to become, "The Come Back Kid" I don't think it has the will to be competitive enough to take scarce jobs away from other states, let alone from China. For example, it is a "union town." It also places a high value on collecting taxes from "greedy corporations." Otherwise known as, "employers." So, unless somebody puts a gun to their head, I don't think they'll be rushing to C-Town

Would you rather employ 500 seamstresses in The Orient or on 55th and Superior? Where do you expect you'd have less problems with labor? How about lawsuits? Would you like to worry about those? Where do you think you'd have the most freedom in choosing your employees and managers? When you invest your capital, do you want to trust it to employees you choose or the ones that fit the government quota requirements? When you decide an employee is untrustworthy, would you like to fire them or sit around wringing your hands, because you are afraid of a lawsuit? Would you like to budget an extra 500 per month for each employees health insurance or would you prefer to keep that money? If you or one of your staff has an affair with an employee, would you prefer to go bankrupt paying "reparations," while you languish in prison or would you prefer to fire her if it gets uncomfortable at the workplace?

My main concern is that Baby Boomers are retiring and Medicare is horribly underfunded. According to The GAO, the problem is developing "rapidly," it is huge and everyone is ignoring it (Obama is busy blowing trillions of dollars on things that just won't help and we're gonna miss that money)


YouTube - U.S. Headed For Fiscal Crisis? (they tack something on the ending of the video, but whatever, the rest is good)

In the short run, Cleveland should benefit from the medical boom, brought on by demographics and entitlements. However, it seems painfully obvious that our medical system encourages over-consumption of healthcare. For example, they say 600,000 hysterectomies are performed annually in The U.S.A, but only 60,000 are medically necessary. Therefore, dramatic cuts could be instituted, without damaging lifespan and quality of life. In fact, it could improve it! Of course, that wouldn't be "good" for the medical industry, on which Cleveland and the area this thread is concerned with in particular, are extremely dependent. Pat Buchanan claimed in his latest column, healthcare is overshadowing manufacturing in America. Apparently, it won't last

Remember, lots of "smart" people kept right on pouring money into financials and were lauded by CNBC as "experts."

Manufacturing jobs aren't going to bring Cleveland or any other city into prosperity. Medical is a large and continually growing industry. If Northeast Ohio is going to latch its hopes onto any sector, I'd rather it be something like medical than something more unpredictable like the auto industry. Cities can't decide or dictate what businesses move in, or if any move in at all. What they can do is make themselves more attractive to potential businesses by lowering taxes and regulations. Unlike you, I'm optimistic that Cleveland can and will make those changes in the future. Cleveland just needs the right leadership. There is nothing that says that a city like Cleveland is guaranteed to fail forever, or that a city like Charlotte is going to continue to be successful. Technology changes, human beings' demand changes, and ultimately migratory patterns change. The one and only thing that might hold Cleveland back in the future, the thing that people constantly complain about, is the climate. But even in regards to that, in terms of the way nature effects localities, I don't know of any area that is perfect.

By the way, the largest employer in the City of University Heights is, without a doubt, John Carroll University. More than anything going on Euclid Avenue, that's the one thing that UH couldn't afford to see fail.

[pirate_lafitte]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

Manufacturing jobs aren't going to bring Cleveland or any other city into prosperity. Medical is a large and continually growing industry. If Northeast Ohio is going to latch its hopes onto any sector, I'd rather it be something like medical than something more unpredictable like the auto industry. Cities can't decide or dictate what businesses move in, or if any move in at all. What they can do is make themselves more attractive to potential businesses by lowering taxes and regulations. Unlike you, I'm optimistic that Cleveland can and will make those changes in the future. Cleveland just needs the right leadership. There is nothing that says that a city like Cleveland is guaranteed to fail forever, or that a city like Charlotte is going to continue to be successful. Technology changes, human beings' demand changes, and ultimately migratory patterns change. The one and only thing that might hold Cleveland back in the future, the thing that people constantly complain about, is the climate. But even in regards to that, in terms of the way nature effects localities, I don't know of any area that is perfect.

By the way, the largest employer in the City of University Heights is, without a doubt, John Carroll University. More than anything going on Euclid Avenue, that's the one thing that UH couldn't afford to see fail.

The medical industry may be growing large, but it's not enough. Cleveland needs more. It needs the manufacturing and engineering jobs. It needs the software programmers and the robot technicians. It needs alot of things right now. Not everyone is going to be a doctor or a nurse.

[airics]

funny thing.. now the clinic is going to vegas with the brain institute

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

The medical industry may be growing large, but it's not enough. Cleveland needs more. It needs the manufacturing and engineering jobs. It needs the software programmers and the robot technicians. It needs alot of things right now. Not everyone is going to be a doctor or a nurse.

Right and that industry is going to have to shrink. We can elect spendthrifts like Obama for the next 100 years, but they can't change reality. We don't have the tax base to support the industry and the industry is over-grown, in the extreme. Cut that industry in half and Cleveland just got a whole lot smaller and poorer.

The "good" news for Cleveland is, nobody wants to touch the problem with a ten foot pole. The "bad" news is, eventually, the problem will eat them.



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[jmlicb]

I think a lot of people are over exaggerating about Cleveland "dying." For being a dying city it is funny how we are still 54th in the world in terms of GDP revenue. I think people focus too hard on what we aren't and "should" be as opposed to what we are and could be.

By the way, THE MEDICAL INDUSTRY IS NOT GOING TO SHRINK, lol probably the funniest thing I've read in a while.

The world economy is in a recession right now just like Cleveland has been in the last 30 some odd years. I think that seeing as how the rest of the world economy has been taken down a peg it makes the playing field in terms of innovation and resource technology for cities such as Cleveland that much more even and maybe even advantageous.

That thing about the medical industry shrinking really gets me though, lol.

[1watertiger]

Brookings Institution report shows Cleveland still a big economic force - OPENERS - Ohio Politics Blog by The Plain Dealer . jmlicb, actually cleveland is 24th. in GDP in the world, behind paris france.... the world !

[ZnGuy]

The world economy is in a recession right now just like Cleveland has been in the last 30 some odd years. I think that seeing as how the rest of the world economy has been taken down a peg it makes the playing field in terms of innovation and resource technology for cities such as Cleveland that much more even and maybe even advantageous.

The real question is how Rust Belt cities like Cleveland fair when we come out of this recession. Many cities may be better positioned to withstand the current crisis. I found this article on another thread that I thought was very insightful...How the Crash Will Reshape America - The Atlantic (March 2009)
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/20090...down-geography

"The Rust Belt in particular looks likely to shed vast numbers of jobs, and some of it's cities and towns, from Cleveland to St. Louis to Buffalo to Detroit, will have a hard time recovering....That's the challenge that many Rust Belt cities share: managing population decline without becoming blighted...."

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by ZnGuy

The world economy is in a recession right now just like Cleveland has been in the last 30 some odd years. I think that seeing as how the rest of the world economy has been taken down a peg it makes the playing field in terms of innovation and resource technology for cities such as Cleveland that much more even and maybe even advantageous.

The real question is how Rust Belt cities like Cleveland fair when we come out of this recession. Many cities may be better positioned to withstand the current crisis. I found this article on another thread that I thought was very insightful...How the Crash Will Reshape America - The Atlantic (March 2009)
How the Crash Will Reshape America - The Atlantic (March 2009)

"The Rust Belt in particular looks likely to shed vast numbers of jobs, and some of it's cities and towns, from Cleveland to St. Louis to Buffalo to Detroit, will have a hard time recovering....That's the challenge that many Rust Belt cities share: managing population decline without becoming blighted...."

I read the article. There's plenty I don't agree with, but the quote you posted sounds pretty good. Cleveland's got a major crime problem and it could get a whole lot worse. If Cleveland would do something about that... Still, I doubt it has the will to. Given the obstacles, Cleveland would have to be very determined and right now, it seems very much in denial

Smaller doesn't = bad; Cleveland could be small and quite nice. Jobless (as in don't come here looking for one), but nice. However, that doesn't appear to be the trend.

If you look at The Metro Area; that's one thing, but Cleveland proper is quite another. Still, the comfort level in the suburbs appears to be decreasing: crime and integration seems to be spreading. Like it or not, people do not appear to appreciate that (regardless of what they say). Remember, actions speak louder than words.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

ZnGuy - Thanks for the article link. I have found Richard Florida's obsession with the creative class to be a bit much at times because the statistical evidence is thin to support it (which is understandable because quantum economic shifts happen slowly and can't be easily predicted, especially when you are in the middle of it)... nonetheless he does make a lot of salient points about demographic shifts and regions. And boy does he hit the nail on the head about Phoenix and (to a lesser extent) Las Vegas! When your economy is based on nothing but 'growth', its like a giant Ponzi scheme (not that I wish ill toward either city, especially since my parents just moved to Goodyear, AZ...).