A dying city? (Cleveland, Lakewood, Cleveland Heights: big house, to live, shops)

[jmlicb]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

I read the article. There's plenty I don't agree with, but the quote you posted sounds pretty good. Cleveland's got a major crime problem and it could get a whole lot worse. If Cleveland would do something about that... Still, I doubt it has the will to. Given the obstacles, Cleveland would have to be very determined and right now, it seems very much in denial

Smaller doesn't = bad; Cleveland could be small and quite nice. Jobless (as in don't come here looking for one), but nice. However, that doesn't appear to be the trend.

If you look at The Metro Area; that's one thing, but Cleveland proper is quite another. Still, the comfort level in the suburbs appears to be decreasing: crime and integration seems to be spreading. Like it or not, people do not appear to appreciate that (regardless of what they say). Remember, actions speak louder than words.

WHO IS CLEVELAND? You keep saying I don't think Cleveland this and Cleveland that. You do realize this is a metropolis of people your talking about, right? Why are all nay-sayers so general? Sounds like you work for the plain dealer and are here to spread negativity.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by jmlicb

WHO IS CLEVELAND? You keep saying I don't think Cleveland this and Cleveland that. You do realize this is a metropolis of people your talking about, right? Why are all nay-sayers so general? Sounds like you work for the plain dealer and are here to spread negativity.

You're right; EVERYONE IS OUT TO GET YOU!

[pirate_lafitte]

I keep thinking that the green industry could be helpful to Cleveland's economy. I am talking specifically wind power.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by pirate_lafitte

I keep thinking that the green industry could be helpful to Cleveland's economy. I am talking specifically wind power.

It cost about twice what Coal does to produce Electricity.

[Clevelander17]

"Chef Boyardee," what is your story? Do you still live in Cleveland? I find quite a bit of irony in your hatred and pessimism for the city considering the person from which you derive your username was a long-time Cleveland resident, earning his fame here.

[Chef Boyardee]

Originally Posted by Clevelander17

"Chef Boyardee," what is your story? Do you still live in Cleveland? I find quite a bit of irony in your hatred and pessimism for the city considering the person from which you derive your username was a long-time Cleveland resident, earning his fame here.

I'm sure he would be disgusted with what has happened to The City, as am I

[OhioPilot]

Cleveland is not dying, it is simply adjusting to realities. The work force in the metro area is less educated and motivated than many other cities, so there are few companies that want to come here to tap into that work force when other regions have higher educated, less welfare-minded workforce pool. On the higher educated front, the amount of young people leaving the area for college and coming back for work is diminishing. If you knew the real stats of office space available downtown, you would see that less than 50% of available office space is actually rented.

We have great resources - available office space, homes near downtown, natural resources. But if we can not convince businesses to come here, there will be no growth. Without a strong workforce, they will choose other locations. Look around the only people who are here grew up here or married someone from here and they want to stay for family. But some of those people are choosing to move elsewhere and there are more people choosing to do that than there are those moving in.

The inner ring suburbs are nice, but the homes are old and in need of updating. The taxes are very high, and the infrastructure that is starting to fail downtown (water pipes, etc) are going to start failing in the inner ring suburbs as they get to that failure age.

We know Cleveland is not one city. It is an urban center with three small cities surrounding it - East Side, South Side, West Side. We don't mix.

I agree that claims we are reducing the percentage of flight from Cleveland is a good sign is far off base. Is it more likely the people that can get out are pretty much out and the remainders feel they have to stay here? I know some love it here, but how many wish better for their kids and will not encourage them to stay here? So the next generation will have even more flight.

Unless you are in medical, there is little reason to be in Cleveland. Even Pittsburgh managed to refocus on banking, technology, and other industries that attract middle management types who build up inner ring suburbs and new metro neighborhoods. Cleveland still thinks it makes steel, and hopes manufacturing will return because it is the best industry to take advantage of a poorly educated work force. But manufacturing is no longer coming here.

Sorry if this was rambling, but I have hours of thoughts on this topic.

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by Chef Boyardee

I'm sure he would be disgusted with what has happened to The City, as am I

I was born and raised in Cleveland, lived the majority of my life in Ohio and a bit of it in Indiana.
Now I am out west, purely because I had to find a job.

I will say this...

What happened to Cleveland was the big betrayal by business. People say the economy changed, or businesses HAD to go overseas for cheaper labor. Like the businesses would have gone OUT of business, when the CEOs were scalping millions off them for their own wallets.
Who is kidding who?

Was it really Unions? Yeah, Unions had problems, and greed was involved, but the concept of unions is good. Now, none of us, white or bluecollar have little protection. An employer can work you to death then say au revoir.

Businesses just found cheaper labor overseas, and like a person leaving their spouse for another lover, demonized the spouse. "Americans cost too much." When they knew that Americans were their MARKET, who bought THEIR products. We were sold on the Walmart mentality, that cheaper was always better. Cheap cheap cheap. Yeah, well, we all have it cheap now, and look where it got us.

Cleveland suffered the ultimate betrayal for having been a host of a great workforce for many years. And it still has a great workforce.

When steel, automotive, and other manufacturing pulled out, we were told we would get "high tech". But high tech went overseas too, and like Cleveland could just go from being an industrial giant to a high technology, IT city overnight.

You can blame corporate greed again. Yet, the people are blamed. "Americans cost too much to employ." or "Unions got greedy." Blah blah blah. Yeah, blame the wife because you found a cheap bimbo. Corporate greed flying around in corporate jets, figuring out ways to cheap the American people, who buy their products. They have no allegiance to their own land.

[nebulous1]

Originally Posted by OhioPilot

Unless you are in medical, there is little reason to be in Cleveland. Even Pittsburgh managed to refocus on banking, technology, and other industries that attract middle management types who build up inner ring suburbs and new metro neighborhoods. Cleveland still thinks it makes steel, and hopes manufacturing will return because it is the best industry to take advantage of a poorly educated work force. But manufacturing is no longer coming here.

What makes you think "medical" is recession proof? I laugh when people call it "the medical field."

Medicine is very specialized, and there is a glut of workers in many of those areas. Many jobs are being sent overseas, such as transcription and medical records. Oh yes, overseas. Patient confidentiality? Money talks first...

Oh, the nursing shortage, eh? Did you know hospitals understaff to keep costs down? Hmmm...so when you are in, and you have to ring 3 times to get your pain meds, remember that one.

You think Cleveland is going to survive just having "medical jobs"? That is a joke. Right now, most hospitals are struggling. At one end, they are paying top level managers big bucks, but at the bottom, trying to figure out how they can have Nancy the unit secretary clean her own area so they don't have to pay a housekeeper.

Patient volumes are down nationally, because people are losing their insurance, or not willing to pay huge copays to go to the ER. Hospitals and outpatient facilities are laying off or restructuring. When people don't have jobs, or don't have GOOD jobs, hospitals are going to feel it. So to all the people who think medicine doesn't feel the recession, it does.

Manufacturing is the ONLY sector that creates jobs in every other area.
With manufacturing, you have everyone from the janitor to the designer, to the engineer, to the quality assurance people, to the upper managers. Other businesses get work, computers, uniforms, food, medical, etc., etc., when manufacturing is present.

So...to try to create an economy based on a service industry, like "the medical field", is not going to work. It is like trying to create an economy based on "the restaurant field."

Instead of looking for bandaids, this country should be trying to get manufacturing back here.

It is like trying to focus on a ship with no swimming pool, when the ship is lost at sea.

[Chef Boyardee]

After reading "The Great Betrayal," by PJB, I concluded:

Our State produced conditions for employers that were oppressive and then encouraged them to leave