A dying city? (Cleveland, Akron, Lorain: middle-class, section 8, real estate market)

[hamlondon]

Does anyone have an opinion on what is happening with neighborhoods such as Shaker Heights, University Heights, and Cleveland Heights? There are tons of homes on the market and the prices are going down. I realize the whole mortgage debacle doesn't help the situation and the economy is in bad shape, but is there more going on here, i.e. are these areas permanently losing population? Are they dying cities?

[complexsimplicity]

I know for Shaker Heights one of the reasons is the taxes, I constantly hear people complaining about it. I think Cleveland Heights is the same. And my personal opinion, I think the section 8 folks that are moving in are pushing people away. They really don't care about the property they live in since they pay little to nothing for it. I seen a boarded up house I think on one of the side streets off Chagrin. That part of Shaker is really going down.

[iuchewie]

cleveland in general is in a down cycle right now - there are very few businesses downtown and more have been leaving in recent years (trw, officemax, ltv, etc.) many of these suburbs that you speak of were where many of the executives lived (specifically shaker, orange, solon, etc.) no companies, no executives, etc.

chewie

[MABCle]

The mortgate crash and foreclosures are a big reason for that sell-off. There was a recent article about how the foreclosure crisis is spilling into the surburbs and not just the inner ring. Downtown CLeveland is still one of the top 10 employment centers in this nation. Downtown CLeveland employs 200,000 and University circle, which is the region's second largest employment center also employs thousands.

Those suburbs aren't going anywhere too soon, but if people don't realize that building brand new homes in Medina and Mentor in s region that is not growing in population, kills older areas by draining them of population.

I suggest you check out urbanohio.com in the forums to read up on some of the billions of dollars of investment going on in the entire Cleveland-Akron metro area.

[WHISPERGIRL]

I personally don't think sec 8 has anything with cleveland property downfall...its due to poor investments, lack of maintenance, low renovations and high taxes. There are good people on sec 8 and i find it rather ridiculous blaming everyone on section 8 for cleveland's depleting real estate market...BOOOOOOO!!!!! By the way I am not a sec8 voucher holder either, I have a 62k income so please save the negative attacks!

[BelieveInCleve]

Its really sad to see whats happening. I wouldnt call them dying cities, Cleveland and East Cleveland are dying cities. They are definitely going downhill though. The section 8 housing has a big part to do with them going downhill. Also the urban population from the city bringing in more urban problems like gangs, drugs, everything else that comes with it. The Eastside ghetto is moving farther and farther out. I wouldnt call them bad people, but they way they that a lot of people grow up in the bad areas will always reflect in how the people act. I realized that in a lot of the kids I grew up with in South Elyria and Central Lorain, a lot of them were my friends but there is no way they could adjust to the suburban lifestyle they bring crime and other things wherever they go.

[costello_musicman]

Section 8 isn't the cause or problem, but it definitely is a catalyst. I really really wish there was a way to phase it out somehow or reform it.

[BelieveInCleve]

Putting section 8 housing in nice areas is just asking for that area to go downhill and for the crime to rise and land value to go down. Its pretty obvious to anyone that has seen it that Section 8 housing brings crime and other problems. Im not saying that every single person in section 8 housing brings crime but that doesnt change the fact that a lot of them do. IMO it would be better to leave the house empty then turn it section 8.

[Clevelander17]

No, the cities aren't dying. There are parts that are in decline, but that decline is very slow. The high taxes in the cities definitely hurt and so does the Section 8 housing. This hurts the schools (in Cleveland Heights in particular), and perhaps more than anything else (at least in the Cleveland area), the perception of the quality of the local schools is what drives home prices.

However it's important to note that it's only parts of the cities that are troubled. All three cities have strong anchors that will keep them afloat through the rough times until things hopefully get better. University Heights has John Carroll, Gesu, and the large Orthodox Jewish settlement on the eastern border, all of which draw people specifically to locate in those areas. Cleveland Heights and Shaker Heights have many nice areas, with great housing stocks, and easy access to the thriving University Circle institutions. Shaker Heights also has good, well-respected schools, and great public transportation options, which are also big draws.

With the foreclosure crisis hitting the outer-ring suburbs and exurbs (people buying more home than they can afford) and the continuous rise of gas prices, I would not be shocked if there is more middle-class movement back towards the metropolitan core (especially if Cleveland can get its act together). The inner-ring suburbs, especially the ones that have remained decent, can only benefit from these developments.

[MzLady30]

I do hold a section 8 voucher and I do not tear up my homes or bring crime wherever I go. For you guys to sit here and maliciously state that section 8 tenants are all bad, I thought the racial stuff died years ago. You may not want to say that black people are the cause, but that is exactly what you are saying. I am a full-time single mother, full-time college student, with an associate degree already, on the road to another degree because I couldn't find a job in that field. Some women use section 8 as a cruch to gain control of their lives. So for you to sit here and blame the downfall of cleveland on section 8 tenants is nothing but racial!