Why doesn't Cleveland have an NHL team? (Columbus: buying, live)

[Peregrine]

CLE and CIN got together and felt bad for our big sister in the middle so we agreed: we needed to let COL have SOMETHING besides collegiate sports.

[osu4brutus03]

Forget Columbus....Ohio State is all they need... I love my Cavs, Indians, Browns, Monsters and Gladiators .....:-) Cleveland Rocks

[motorman]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

CLE and CIN got together and felt bad for our big sister in the middle so we agreed: we needed to let COL have SOMETHING besides collegiate sports.

"Our big sister"(?) Don't think so, Peregrine! "Our little wannabe," maybe; "our little sister," possibly...

[chet_kinkaid]

i wouldnt be surprised if in the future each of the 3 cities has 2 major league teams.think 25-30 years from now how different the landscapee will be in ohio

[motorman]

Originally Posted by chet_kinkaid

i wouldnt be surprised if in the future each of the 3 cities has 2 major league teams.think 25-30 years from now how different the landscapee will be in ohio

Two of the three cities already have 2 or more major league teams apiece--looks like "the third city" will need to play catch up...

[mooguy]

As a hockey crazed Canadian I have often wondered this as well as has my brother.
Relatively speaking, Cleveland was a very large northern US when the NHL was formed.
After the first expansion in the late 1960s I would have thought Cleveland would have been one of the first to try to get a team, far more so than much smaller Buffalo.
Then when Ohio finally gets a team, it goes to Columbus which also strikes me as odd.
If there was a city that I think would do very well with an NHL team it's Cleveland. There is talk of the Islanders folding and moving elsewhere and Winnipeg moving over to the Western Conference.........that leaves 2 Eatern spots open, Quebec City wants their team back and Cleveland is the largest northern city in the nation not to have an NHL team.

[Rockmysawks]

Cleveland had an NHL team, they just didn't last long

[Joke Insurance]

If Cleveland actually ends up getting an NHL from either relocation or expansion sometime in the future, what would you like for them to be called? And this owner does not want to use the Barons name. I am sure you guys can come up with a name only unique to Cleveland

[gaebie]

Cleveland WAS a hockey city, since the 1940's with the AHL Baron's. The Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association were very successful from 1972 through most of the '80's; they drew sellouts of 18,000+ often at the Coliseum in Richfield. Then Gund got greedy and wanted an NHL team. He merged the Crusaders with a team in St. Paul, and brought the Oakland Seals to Cleveland and called them the Barons, but they never had the success the Crusaders had. After two years, he merged the Barons with the Minnesota North Stars (now the Dallas Stars)

Two years after killing off the WHA Crusaders, the NHL merged with the WHA and brought four WHA teams into the NHL. If Gund had not been so greedy and waited, the Crusaders were successful enough to be one of the teams kept for the NHL and would probably still be here.

So to answer the OP question "Why doesn't Cleveland have an NHL team?" Only One Reason: the Gund's greed!

[Marty711]

Originally Posted by gaebie

Cleveland WAS a hockey city, since the 1940's with the AHL Baron's. The Cleveland Crusaders of the World Hockey Association were very successful from 1972 through most of the '80's; they drew sellouts of 18,000+ often at the Coliseum in Richfield. Then Gund got greedy and wanted an NHL team. He merged the Crusaders with a team in St. Paul, and brought the Oakland Seals to Cleveland and called them the Barons, but they never had the success the Crusaders had. After two years, he merged the Barons with the Minnesota North Stars (now the Dallas Stars)

Two years after killing off the WHA Crusaders, the NHL merged with the WHA and brought four WHA teams into the NHL. If Gund had not been so greedy and waited, the Crusaders were successful enough to be one of the teams kept for the NHL and would probably still be here.

So to answer the OP question "Why doesn't Cleveland have an NHL team?" Only One Reason: the Gund's greed!

I disagree with that. For one, your numbers and years are off. The Crusaders only existed from 72-76 and were relocated to St. Paul only to go under a couple months later. They didn't merge with any team, they simply relocated as the prior St. Paul WHA team had closed up in the middle of the prior season (The NHL Barons were relocated from Oakland, not by way of any merger. The Barons later merged with the North Stars) The Crusaders averaged all of 6,000 people per season. They were only in the Coliseum for two years and attendance barely grew when they moved there from Cleveland Arena. They might've sold out a few games but they weren't nearly as successful as you're making them out to be. The Barons outdrew the Crusaders slightly when it came to attendance. Gund never owned the Crusaders, Nick Mileti did. Mileti also owned the AHL Barons that existed until 72 when he shut them down to make way for the Crusaders.

Beyond that, the Crusaders and the entire WHA was on the brink of going under during its entire existence. If the Crusaders were so successful, Mileti would've never allowed the Barons in the Coliseum in the first place as he owned the Crusaders. The fact they closed up shop a couple of months after moving to St. Paul tells you all need to know about the problems the Crusaders and the WHA had. The WHA teams that ended up going to the NHL had to make terrible concessions (including giving up nearly their entire rosters) which is why Cincinnati didn't make it to the NHL. The Crusaders could've ended up like the Stingers, Aeros and Bulls among countless others that went out of business before and during the merger with the NHL. The Barons didn't have to deal with that and they did not face the financial penalty that the WHA teams did. In that way, it was better from a cost perspective to not bring a team over from the WHA.

Finally, the Gunds saved the Barons from going under in 77. Melvin Swig was the original majority owner. The Gunds bought him out a year after they moved to Cleveland from Oakland. Without that influx of cash, the Barons would've gone under just as quickly as they arrived. If Mileti had sold the Coliseum to the Gunds as they proposed in 77, the Barons would've continued to exist. The Barons had an awful lease and that was their number one problem. Mileti refused to budge. If anything, it was Mileti who caused the Barons to sink by his refusal to re-do the lease that Swig signed.