Why doesn't Cleveland have an NHL team? (Richfield: lease, job market)

[stlouisan]

Basically what the thread says. I'm surprised that a city like Cleveland, separated from Canada only by Lake Erie, can't support an NHL team. I know the Cleveland Barons existed briefly decades ago, but other than that, I just can't believe a wintry city like Cleveland doesn't have demand for a hockey team...can it just not support it on top of basketball?

[Clevelander17]

Originally Posted by stlouisan

Basically what the thread says. I'm surprised that a city like Cleveland, separated from Canada only by Lake Erie, can't support an NHL team. I know the Cleveland Barons existed briefly decades ago, but other than that, I just can't believe a wintry city like Cleveland doesn't have demand for a hockey team...can it just not support it on top of basketball?

I don't believe we'd be able to support both. It's hard to explain, but Cleveland really isn't a big hockey town like other northern cities such as Minneapolis-St. Paul, Detroit, and Buffalo. Detroit and Buffalo are basically border cities, so they're much more closely connected with Canada than we are and that definitely helps drive the fervor in those places.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Well, we have a hockey team (AHL - Lake Erie Monsters) just not an NHL team. My guess is that our media market isn't considered large enough to support 4 professional teams even though it is ranked 16th thru 18th (depending on whose list you look at) and has about 4.5 million people in it. Anyway, there are only 12 cities that are actually "4 sport cities." Also, considering that LA, Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, and Seattle have larger markets and also have less than 4 each, we really can't complain.

[Mr216]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

Well, we have a hockey team (AHL - Lake Erie Monsters) just not an NHL team. My guess is that our media market isn't considered large enough to support 4 professional teams even though it is ranked 16th thru 18th (depending on whose list you look at) and has about 4.5 million people in it. Anyway, there are only 12 cities that are actually "4 sport cities." Also, considering that LA, Atlanta, Tampa, Houston, and Seattle have larger markets and also have less than 4 each, we really can't complain.

Funny I remember reading like a ranking of "most stretched out sports cities' and Cleveland was near the top because we keep getting sports team even though our population is declining

[Trackwatch]

The original AHL Cleveland Barons were very successful, winning many division titles and championships.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Mr216

Funny I remember reading like a ranking of "most stretched out sports cities' and Cleveland was near the top because we keep getting sports team even though our population is declining

That article you read was written by a complete hack and, if you do the math yourself, you could see that it made little sense in many of the situations. Cleveland's sports teams are supported by NE Ohio which touts a population of over 4 million people and has not declined by more than about 1%. I'll put it to you this way, when the Cavs were winning a couple of years ago, could you get a ticket to a game without paying a scalper? Also, Cleveland hasn't gotten a new permanent sports team since the Cavs in 1970. I suppose you could count the NHL Barons in the mid-70's, but that team quickly merged with Minnesota. Basically, Cleveland has 3 pro teams which are well supported as long as they show even a slight interest in winning (with the Browns being a notable exception -- they're always well supported).

[costello_musicman]

We have the third highest in attendance for AHL Hockey:

Lake Erie Monsters

TheAHL.com | The American Hockey League | Home

Plus, Cleveland had a team in the 1970's, the Cleveland Barons, but were moved rather quickly.

[Marty711]

There's actually several reasons as to why the Barons folded. Here's a little history lesson from an old thread

The Crusaders were a WHA team. In 1976, the Gunds moved the NHL Golden Seals to Cleveland. Thus, the Barons were born. The NHL was the premier hockey league so that's why the Crusaders disappeared. At that time, the WHA was struggling financially so Mileti was willing to let the Barons come to town.

The NHL Barons were a bust at the gate and on the ice. They were lucky to get 10,000 fans. Whether that's because they were in Richland or poor performance, its hard to say. The Barons had a terrible lease agreement with Mileti which is one reason they had trouble making money. The Gunds attempted to buy the Coliseum but were rejected. When that happened, they decided to cut their losses and go to Minnesota.

The original AHL Barons folded because of the Crusaders. Mileti owned both and the WHA was trying to become a major league, something the AHL never aspired to be.
The Lumberjacks folded when the IHL did. It wasn't because of any issue, just the league went under and only a few teams moved over to the AHL.
When the Gunds brought the Barons back in 2001, they did a terrible job marketing the team. It was really an afterthought. That's why they struggled and went under. Besides, Gilbert wanted to own the AHL franchise and the Sharks didn't want to give up control of the Barons. He wanted to start fresh and own the team so he was happy to see them go.

To answer how the Cavs survived, I think there are several reasons. For one, the arena was always tied to the Cavs. As I mentioned, the Barons had an awful arena deal. The Cavs were always boosted by that. You're also comparing minor league to major league teams for the most part. The Crusaders were semi-major league and the NHL Barons barely existed.

If the Gunds had gotten control of the Coliseum, the Barons would've survived. That was the main difference during those lean years. Its ironic that only a few years after the Gunds were rejected by Mileti, they ended up getting control of the Coliseum by buying the Cavs. If that had happened a few years earlier, they would've co-existed.

Hockey has a cult following in the area. There are rinks here, high school teams, youth hockey associations. I'm sure if the Barons had lasted, we'd have more rinks. And as mentioned, the Monsters and their predecessors have done pretty well. I wouldn't say that the NHL couldn't be supported here since the Barons were behind the eight ball from the get go. A good team would've made all the difference.

[Kamms]

What doomed NHL in Cleveland was opening the Richfield Coliseum.

[Cleveland_Collector]

It, along with Ted Stepien, almost doomed the NBA here as well. It's a good thing that the Gund brothers and the Cuyahoga County voters were smart enough to put the Cavs back where they belong.