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Old 04-12-2012, 12:56 PM
 
3,359 posts, read 3,061,157 times
Reputation: 2794

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Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick808 View Post
Examples in the north: Detroit and Buffalo
Forgive my oversight; looks like Cleveland is in great company here.
Well, you said "only." Only means single. Your 'oversight' can only be construed as general ignorance.

Quote:
Houston's urban core is NOT situated on the waterfront like Cleveland. For examples of what I'm talking about, see Baltimore's Inner Harbor, Chicago's Navy Pier, and Boston's Harbor.
That's even worse. They purposefully avoided placing the urban core near the water. Talk about a missed opportunity!!

Quote:
Cleveland's waterfront is considered undeveloped to any urban planner, as it lacks a critical mass of retail, commercial space, eateries, and walkable recreation. Again, with the intellectual honesty.
No, it is considered underdeveloped. There's no argument with that.

Undeveloped = no development. That simply isn't so. You really have a hard time with absolutes, don't you?
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:21 PM
 
3,359 posts, read 3,061,157 times
Reputation: 2794
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick808 View Post
Again, with the personal attacks. "People like you", as you put it, need to remove that chip off your shoulder. It reeks of insecurity and bitterness. Relax, dude. As with many others, I don't like the city of Cleveland. Get over it. I happen to love the city of Raleigh, NC. However, I won't go making personal attacks and judgments about those who happen to dislike Raleigh for whatever reason (and trust me, there are people who hate it). In a word, get a grip people!
Well, they certainly aren't people like me. They are, however, just like you: Pompous yet clueless, using opinion as a basis of fact, and more than happy to take a dump wherever they are while expecting everyone around them to enjoy the smell. If you don't like it here, GTFO and take your silly biases and vitriol with you. I'm sure Raleigh will love you... until you open your mouth, that is

Insecurity and bitterness are measures used for those who aren't content with themselves. As you go to great lengths to convince yourself otherwise, that seems like you in a nutshell.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
6,142 posts, read 6,268,026 times
Reputation: 3164
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick808 View Post
Another typical trait of Cleveland...incredibly sensitive and defensive natives.
Didn't think I was being "overly sensitve". I was simply debating what I saw as the typical "negative Nancy" making it sound like Cleveland is hell on Earth and worse then every other city on the planet. Re-Read your post. You don't think it had that air of "nowhere on Earth has it as bad as Cleveland does"?
Seriously??


"water main breaks weekly", "burned out schools", "the only major municipality with a waterfront to leave it undeveloped", "among the worst school systems in the nation", "more rapid than any other city", "per capita income is among the lowest in the nation", and
"Cleveland has one of the nation's highest poverty rates".

By the way, we don't. That's my issue with your post. It's 90% your opinion and none of it is based on facts.

Highest poverty rate? I can't find anything to back that up. Call me crazy .. I check facts BEFORE I post them.
According to US News & World Report, CLE isn't even in the top ten:
Introduction: 10 Metro Areas With the Highest Poverty Levels - US News & World Report

"You cannot say with any intellectual honesty that Cleveland does not suffer from blight. Please, just drive around the flats, much of midtown, Hough, Wade Park, Mt. Pleasant, and W. 130th. Maybe you are so used to it that you don't even notice."

The flats is being rebuilt.
I had dinner a month ago at Cafe Roma on Lorain and 130th. That area is not "blighted". Maybe a southeast of there. I haven't been that way in awhile.
And no I don't spend time near Hough or Mt. Pleasant.

What I am used to are things being improved. The entire Kamms Corner area is totally redevloped and looks great, filled with new business.
Ohio City is getting it's charm back and becoming a hip area destination. Do I really need to go on?
Meet me at the Battery Park Wine Bar tomorrow night and we can discuss how blighted that area is. I will be there around 8.


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Old 04-12-2012, 02:29 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
6,142 posts, read 6,268,026 times
Reputation: 3164
And I do agree that the schools are bad, but again you make it sound like we are the worst.

Cleveland graduation rate is on the top5. Behind Baltimore and NYC and the poster child of bad cities, Detroit.

But this is a problem that effects EVERY major city. Bar none.

USATODAY.com - Big-city schools struggle with graduation rates

21.7% graduation rate in Detroit. Wow...
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:48 PM
 
3,359 posts, read 3,061,157 times
Reputation: 2794
^^ Like I stated before, he has a really hard time with absolutes (among many other things).
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Old 04-13-2012, 05:54 AM
Yac
 
4,357 posts, read 3,735,254 times
So I take it all this fighting means the topic has been discussed in such detail, all that is left is attacking another person's opinion ? Because if that's the case, I'm afraid it might be a call for me to close this thread.
Yac.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:19 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
6,142 posts, read 6,268,026 times
Reputation: 3164
I saw Yac was the last poster and knew we were going to be admonished. lol


I don't think it's devolved to flat out fighting yet, Yac.

Maverick, the other issue I have with your post is that it really has very little to do with the question: "why are people so negative?".

You are just pointing out everything you think is wrong with this town. Do you think the stay-at-home-mom that lives in Pepper Pike cares one iota that Cleveland's schools suck? No.
Or that Hough has some blight? No.
Or that Cleveland has poverty? No.
These do not make her negative about the city.

I'm just saying that it's eaiser to complain about where you lve then it is to be positive. Let me ask you, Mav: what do you LIKE about CLE? Gotta' be something.
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Old 04-13-2012, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Cincinnati (Norwood)
2,113 posts, read 1,606,239 times
Reputation: 1016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post

...I'm just saying that it's eaiser to complain about where you lve then it is to be positive. Let me ask you, Mav: what do you LIKE about CLE? Gotta' be something...
(...just as long as he doesn't say "it ain't Cincinnati")
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Old 04-13-2012, 09:42 AM
 
50 posts, read 71,875 times
Reputation: 70
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peregrine View Post
I saw Yac was the last poster and knew we were going to be admonished. lol


I don't think it's devolved to flat out fighting yet, Yac.

Maverick, the other issue I have with your post is that it really has very little to do with the question: "why are people so negative?".

You are just pointing out everything you think is wrong with this town. Do you think the stay-at-home-mom that lives in Pepper Pike cares one iota that Cleveland's schools suck? No.
Or that Hough has some blight? No.
Or that Cleveland has poverty? No.
These do not make her negative about the city.

I'm just saying that it's eaiser to complain about where you lve then it is to be positive. Let me ask you, Mav: what do you LIKE about CLE? Gotta' be something.
Things I like about Cleveland:

1.) Great restaurant and dining scene

2.) Eclectic neighborhoods such as Tremont and mixed-use neighborhoods such as Ohio City.

3.) Sokolowski's

4.) Cleveland Art Museum

5.) University Circle in the summer (e.g., Wade Oval Wednesdays)

6.) The Westside Market

As I mentioned in my previous posts, I was simply responding to why "people" (including myself) are critical of Cleveland. Also, I will concede that my statements were probably too 'absolute' in some instances as someone pointed out. However, I believe that my statements were substantively accurate in that Cleveland struggles significantly with regard to the items that I listed in my initial post.

As for why a stay-at-home mom in Pepper Pike doesn't like Cleveland, I really couldn't tell you - and I didn't think the OP's question was that narrow. But I would venture to guess that crime, safety, lack of shopping options, schools, and aesthetics would probably be on her list. Just guessing. Perhaps a mom from Pepper Pike is reading the thread and can speak on her own behalf.

Nonetheless, I have spoken to many others about the city, and those who are critical of Clevland echo many of the sentiments expressed in my post.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
6,142 posts, read 6,268,026 times
Reputation: 3164
Good post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick808 View Post

As for why a stay-at-home mom in Pepper Pike doesn't like Cleveland, I really couldn't tell you - and I didn't think the OP's question was that narrow.
*insert any suburb here*
I merely meant to point out that the 60%-70% of Cuyahoga County residents that don't live in Cleveland are hardly negative because: Hough, MT Pleasent which they never even see. The CMSD Schools. And some of the other points you made.
They should care about the schools. As I pointed out this is a national problem, not merely a regional one. But they don't.

Still can't get over that 20% graduation rate in Detroit. That's stunning to me. I would never guess anywhere in this country it could possibly be that low.
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