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Okay, some of you may remember my situation in which I have been planning a move to the city I love in Early 2013. I do desperately want to make the 216 my home but I do have a few major concerns. Point blank... Is it worth it? I mean, I love Cleveland (don't get me wrong), but I am planning on living my life out in a city that bleeds population every single year (in ground breaking numbers I'll add) since 1950!!! In 1950 there was a record high of 914,808 people, and now we have less than 400,000? And that's just in the last 50 years!!! What about the next 50? We can't lose everyone can we? Now I don't mind the Urban Blight/Urban Decay of a city and actually find it to be quite beautiful. I don't however want Cleveland to turn into another Detroit (which seems to be the direction of travel) where the entire city is a wasteland. Yes we all know about the revitalization of downtown, the new casino, and even the apartments that have 6 month waiting lists. But in the end is this all a facade? Is Cleveland actually moving forward or is it just destine for failure? I have high hopes for Cleveland but I sometimes wonder if all my hopes are in vain. This is my biggest fear though about my move. I love the city of Cleveland and I do want to live there for the rest of my days (I'm only 33 now), but at the same time I don't want to see this great city I love deteriorate in front of my eyes. I think this thought is the biggest thing holding me back from moving there. Because if nothing else I could go to Philadelphia (which is my 2nd choice). It's said that "Home is where the heart is"... Well my heart may have been left in Cleveland, but I don't know if I'm going to retrieve it if it means watching the city fall before me.
I fail to see how Cleveland is headed in the direction of Detroit? Cleveland has a diverse economy that doesn't rotate around one industry. Cleveland is no different in its population decline than Baltimore, Pittsburgh, St. Louis or Milwaukee. Cleveland is home to insurance companies, health care facilities that most cities only dream of, awesome recreational opportunities, and city neighborhoods that aren't just following downtown's growth. Ever hear of Ohio City, Tremont, Detroit-Shoreway, University Circle? These are a few areas experiencing the same type of growth as downtown, but obviously different approaches because each one is different.
Cleveland has a low unemployment rate with a growing labor force, an economy that isn't sitting around waiting for the next big thing to happen, and construction happening in every section of the city, not just focusing in on certain neighborhoods. Cleveland has a light/heavy rail system, awesome cultural institutions which in their own right are experiencing rapid growth.
My advice for you, don't listen to the media, and be proud of what Cleveland already has. It's going places, and doing so better than most places around the country. It has a strong past, and a very bright future. Detroit?! No way! Look at cities like St. Louis. Even St. Louis isn't experiencing the growth that Cleveland is right now.
RatKing, I guess my "scare" comment was more of a shot at bacaboy, not you. Don't mean to infer anything about you!
Honestly, though, I think your fears of population being such a central focus is off. Population goes up, population goes down, everywhere in the country. That doesn't necessarily make a city good or bad. I know people from Austin and Portland, places with huge population booms recently, who long for the days when people weren't showing up in droves. The other city you are considering, Philadelphia, lost population for decades just like Cleveland until a very recent slight uptick. Still a good city though, in my opinion.
But none of that really matters. I think the only way you can actually decide if you want to live here for the long haul is to set aside a week or two and come visit. I am confident enough in the city that if you come see what there is here, you will like it and you will find everything here much more affordable and more accessible than most places in the country.
My post was "slick"...thanks...I think! Not trying to fake anything. Obviously I have a dim view of the future of Cleveland proper. I have stated multiple times about population. I see that you correctly are also focused on population. I have also asked for someone to explain how Cleveland (the city) is going to get better when it continues to lose population. So far, only one forum member has replied. I think it is a zero sum game as the city can not get better unless population stops declining or lots of high income people begin to live there and support lots of jobs below them....see New York, Boston, San Francisco, etc.
Also, you need to ask yourself how you will judge if you made the "right" choice. Even if I am correct and (for example, not forecast) Cleveland loses another 100k people over the next decade or two, that does NOT mean that people who live here for the next 20 years will somehow be decimated. It does mean, though, that many people will lose lots of money in real estate, crime will probably be higher than otherwise, city services will get worse, schools will be worse, etc. If that is the case, then there better be a good reason to want to live in such city when over the next 20 years there are other cities that will grow much more and improve relatively. Choice is yours of course but you need (and are) to hear pros/cons. Also, you should hear out those suburbanites that you loathe so much. Why do you think suburbanites of Cleveland hate Cleveland while suburbanites of other cities may actually like their city? Something to think about....
My post was "slick"...thanks...I think! Not trying to fake anything. Obviously I have a dim view of the future of Cleveland proper. I have stated multiple times about population. I see that you correctly are also focused on population. I have also asked for someone to explain how Cleveland (the city) is going to get better when it continues to lose population. So far, only one forum member has replied. I think it is a zero sum game as the city can not get better unless population stops declining or lots of high income people begin to live there and support lots of jobs below them....see New York, Boston, San Francisco, etc.
Also, you need to ask yourself how you will judge if you made the "right" choice. Even if I am correct and (for example, not forecast) Cleveland loses another 100k people over the next decade or two, that does NOT mean that people who live here for the next 20 years will somehow be decimated. It does mean, though, that many people will lose lots of money in real estate, crime will probably be higher than otherwise, city services will get worse, schools will be worse, etc. If that is the case, then there better be a good reason to want to live in such city when over the next 20 years there are other cities that will grow much more and improve relatively. Choice is yours of course but you need (and are) to hear pros/cons. Also, you should hear out those suburbanites that you loathe so much. Why do you think suburbanites of Cleveland hate Cleveland while suburbanites of other cities may actually like their city? Some to think about....
Well no offense, but I this is the first post of yours I have read, maybe people are just ignoring you. People aren't always going to focus in on the negativity. Maybe that is why people didn't respond to your post. This is the first of anything of yours and anyone elses' I have read in the Cleveland forum. No judgment, but negativity isn't exactly a redeeming quality on internet forums.
People from the suburbs hate Cleveland? I am not living in any fantasy world, but I am from Willoughby Hills and have moved to the city for school with roomates. Every weekend I see people from the suburbs in places like University Circle, here in Little Italy, Coventry, Ohio City, downtown, etc. I just posted in the Cincinnati forum how I have friends from Troy, Michigan who brag about not going into Detroit and how they have commented on how people from Cleveland actually enjoy their city.
I was asking the OP why he thinks all Cleveland suburbanites hate Cleveland. I do not think that is true.
As to my posts, if I were researching a city, I'd like to know pros/cons of that city. Indeed, I do not understand why people get so rankled by hearing another point of view. Common sense says you better have done your homework before choosing to live in a city that is among the fastest shrinking in the United States. And even if it is shrinking, that may not matter to many. But I am a believer that the "proof is in the pudding" and if a city is losing population year after year, there is generally a pretty good reason why that is happening. That fact trumps all opinion, whether good or bad. There are plenty of people who hate fast growing cities in the South, but the fact that those cities are growing do tell you that more people are coming than going. To me, that means something but may not mean anything to others.
The USA is a big country and there are many choices of cities to live in. Given the FACT of population loss in Cleveland and stagnant population growth in the Cleveland MSA, millions of people are voting on Cleveland every year and every day. To me, that is very important for anyone considering the area.
I was asking the OP why he thinks all Cleveland suburbanites hate Cleveland. I do not think that is true.
As to my posts, if I were researching a city, I'd like to know pros/cons of that city. Indeed, I do not understand why people get so rankled by hearing another point of view. Common sense says you better have done your homework before choosing to live in a city that is among the fastest shrinking in the United States. And even if it is shrinking, that may not matter to many. But I am a believer that the "proof is in the pudding" and if a city is losing population year after year, there is generally a pretty good reason why that is happening. That fact trumps all opinion, whether good or bad. There are plenty of people who hate fast growing cities in the South, but the fact that those cities are growing do tell you that more people are coming than going. To me, that means something but may not mean anything to others.
The USA is a big country and there are many choices of cities to live in. Given the FACT of population loss in Cleveland and stagnant population growth in the Cleveland MSA, millions of people are voting on Cleveland every year and every day. To me, that is very important for anyone considering the area.
How do you expect to reverse that trend if pessimistic people like you keep discouraging people from moving to the area?
I was asking the OP why he thinks all Cleveland suburbanites hate Cleveland. I do not think that is true.
As to my posts, if I were researching a city, I'd like to know pros/cons of that city. Indeed, I do not understand why people get so rankled by hearing another point of view. Common sense says you better have done your homework before choosing to live in a city that is among the fastest shrinking in the United States. And even if it is shrinking, that may not matter to many. But I am a believer that the "proof is in the pudding" and if a city is losing population year after year, there is generally a pretty good reason why that is happening. That fact trumps all opinion, whether good or bad. There are plenty of people who hate fast growing cities in the South, but the fact that those cities are growing do tell you that more people are coming than going. To me, that means something but may not mean anything to others.
The USA is a big country and there are many choices of cities to live in. Given the FACT of population loss in Cleveland and stagnant population growth in the Cleveland MSA, millions of people are voting on Cleveland every year and every day. To me, that is very important for anyone considering the area.
I agree that people should do their research when moving to any place. But I have met plenty of people who have moved to Cleveland and love it. On my street alone I know two different houses with people from Michigan, one from Kentucky (my two roomates are from Michigan), two from Pennsylvania, one from New York, and one from California. Just because a city has lost people, doesn't mean it is dead and devoid of anything spectacular. I think most people are going to call someone out when they are constantly negative, that's where the problems lies. No one is denying cities of their problems, or saying their city is perfect. I have been a long-time lurker on city data, and the same thing holds true for just about any major city subforum, posters do not like the constant negativity and that is when they start calling posters out or just learn to ignore them. I don't know you, and I am not passing judgment on you, just going by what others have said in this very thread.
Cities in the south lack a lot of what people are looking for. I lived in Florida, their cities have nothing to offer except Miami which is fun. Southern cities are growing in large part because people want to be in great weather. That trend is slowing because people realize the economy down south is worse than up north, and it isn't what they made it out to be. I am an economics major, I saw everything with a grass is greener mentality... I wanted Florida so bad. After a few months down south I wanted to leave. Ugh, I hated it! I thought everything was better down there. Truth be told, poverty runs rampant, most areas are lacking in any culture except lets go to Olive Garden for dinner and lets buy everything at Walmart. Nothing wrong with either of those, but it gets old. I wanted "real" cities. Something like the Westside Market, I wanted plenty of recreational opportunities that revolved around much more than just a few options. I wanted a job market that was diverse. I wanted great parks that weren't centered around some subdivision. I wanted public transit that didn't just include buses. If I fly into Orlando, I have to get a cab or rental car to get to my hotel in the city, in Cleveland I can just take the rapid. I hated the constant heat, the 10 lanes in each direction roads that were not pedestrian friendly at all. I wanted the lifestyle that I had back north, so I was a part of the "boomerang" effect. Now, I live in a neighborhood with great food. I can walk from my house to my classes at Case. I am not much into art and symphonies, but when ever I am in the mood, I have one of the world's top rated orchestras, and an art museum that is constantly rated as one of the nation's best. I have great parks, transit to get me around, and I have grocery stores within walking distance. Not to mention world class hospitals, a prestigious university that I am proud to be a part of, and diversity on every block. A walk up to Conventry is always a good time. I love being a part of the city, and I love watching new places sprout up from the ground. I would have never had this opportunity in Florida. I had to get in my car and drive forever to get where I needed to go. I was seriously contemplating going to the University of Louisville until I stayed in the city for a week. I could not stand the culture, and I wanted more out of a city than what Louisville brought to the table.
I will post pros/cons as well. No one is denying any place of its problem unless they are big time sugarcoaters. But at the same time, Cleveland offers more than most places, and its population is declining because it lost what made it such a huge city in the first place... manufacturing. Cleveland's economy is extremely diverse now. It could be like cities in Detroit, Vegas or Charlotte which relied on one industry through the recession and look where they are at now. Cleveland instead ranks up there with places like Nashville and San Antonio in unemployment rate numbers, on top of that, a work force that has grown by almost 20,000 in the first quarter of the year. Cleveland is losing the people who can't make it in the city or the people who can't leave are the ones who stay and suffer, and we know that exists just like in every city. Now it is becoming more educated and white collar, a look around its neighborhoods easily explains this. I live next to one of them. Cleveland's metro area has remained stagnant over the past few decades... but numbers are showing that the economy is healthier here, like I stated earlier, some of the suburbs are listed as the best place to live, and people from bigger cities move to Cleveland because they can get the same big city stuff to do, at a lower cost of living. Downtown and surrounding neighborhoods are growing at pretty healthy rates, and they continue to bring more people in and more stuff to do.
I guess it just took me leaving to realize what I had here, and where I grew up. The difference going to school here and in Florida, people actually plan on staying and getting a job here because if they are going to be either a lawyer (Jones Day) or doctor (University Hospitals/Cleveland Clinic), maybe a nurse or engineer, they know Cleveland has the jobs and possibilities to go far, and cheaply too. I knew so many college students back in Florida who wanted to leave because they didn't have any opportunity there to get what they wanted out of a career. I guess I just learned to appreciate Cleveland, and realized the grass really isn't greener.
"I wanted Florida so bad. After a few months down south I wanted to leave. Ugh, I hated it! I thought everything was better down there."
So before you moved to Florida, you read city-data.com and all the posters told you how great it was? And then? Same could happen to someone who chooses Cleveland based on what they read here. Grass is always greener on the other side, no?
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nice rant...
I think this thought is the biggest thing holding me back from moving there. Because if nothing else I could go to Philadelphia (which is my 2nd choice). It's said that "Home is where the heart is"... Well my heart may have been left in Cleveland, but I don't know if I'm going to retrieve it if it means watching the city fall before me.
