cleveland or chicago (Columbus, Cincinnati, Canton: for sale, city hall, condo)

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by missmeli0501

Also, I just had three-hundred naked bike riders go down my street in protest of our dependence on oil. This would NEVER happen in Cleveland.

Where in Chicago was this? Damn, I miss everything!

[BelieveInCleve]

Originally Posted by missmeli0501

Also, I just had three-hundred naked bike riders go down my street in protest of our dependence on oil. This would NEVER happen in Cleveland.

I dont really get the point of this statement. If it makes a difference, there was thousands of people who got completely naked and layed down on the ground so that an artist could make a painting of it in Cleveland.

[missmeli0501]

It was a joke, man! Geez.

Originally Posted by andrew61

Where in Chicago was this? Damn, I miss everything!

Boystown. Where else?

[Rocksider]

I have lived in both, but I am originally from Cleveland. To be honest, it's a toss up for me. I like them both. Cleveland, like Chicago, is better defined by its specific areas. Too many people try to generalize when comparing the two. Basically, if you are looking for high-end, high-priced downtown living, Chicago is far better. If you are looking for affordable and quiet suburbia, the Cleveland area is likely more your speed. I will say that the major upsides for Cleveland is that we have just about everything that any major metropolitan area has including many good restaurants, three major sports teams, decent nightlife, a better than average airport with a major airline hub, etc. The downside is that there isn't as much of it and you'll have to do more driving. However, the cost of living is much less and you won't have to pay $30 to park your car downtown.

[TheProf]

I'm a Clevelander who loves both cities. While I believe Cleveland has many if not most of the quality of life factors Chicago has -- housing, diversity, quality living, entertainment, arts, etc... the hard fact is, if you want urban excitement on a 24/7 scale, Chicago has it over my hometown in spades... It just does. While Cleveland has its moments, like downtown on a Friday or Saturday summer night (esp when there's a big concert at the Stadium and/or the Indians are in town), many, many times downtown, and even hot neighborhoods like Ohio City, Shaker Square and Tremont are doornail dead... On a warm Sunday afternoon just last week, we went walking around downtown Cleveland and I'd estimate that over half the city blocks we traversed, we were the ONLY people on them. Restaurants with outdoor patios had half their chairs stacked up for easy closure and staff, what few there were, looked bored -- even in the Warehouse District and E. 4th street, THE hottest downtown areas... It's the polar opposite of Michigan Ave, the Gold Coast, River North, Wrigglyville or Bucktown-Wicker Park. Chicago feels like a cleaner, slightly more laid back New York while Cleveland often feels like Dubuque.

I've just come to believe that's just the way Cleveland is... it's a stay-at/close-to-home town where hanging out downtown just isn't the thing as it is in Chicago, Boston, NYC or D.C... Like I say, I love Cleveland, but a liar I'm not.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

This is an interesting thread. I have been reading it and trying to discern the differences besides the obvious stuff when you are comparing any top 5 (in population) metro area versus a top 20 metro area within the same general region of a country. I haven't really heard anything too surprising.

To me, Cleveland has a very high ratio of "stuff to do" per person, one of (if not the highest) in the country. Believe me... I live in Portland which is a great place to live and a similar sized metro area, but, with the exception of natural outdoor recreation opportunities, Cleveland absolutely blows away Portland in terms of the amount of "stuff to do".

I am disappointed with Cleveland's airport though... to me, it doesn't have nearly as many direct flights compared to many other airports in similar-sized metros (and NO direct flights to Portland, which stinks for me). I think this is because there are so many other airport hub cities that are fairly close (Detroit-Northwest, Cincy-Delta, Pittsburgh-US Air... I supposed you could throw in Chicago-United as well). I am personally sensitive to this because I fly a lot and Portland suffers from the same problem with Seattle being 170 miles away.

I was just listening to an old Cleveland Magazine podcast the other day and they were interviewing someone from Channel 19 news who had just moved to Cleveland from Chicago. For her, the positive of Cleveland was that people were a LOT nicer, but the negative was that she has had a lot of trouble finding bars that cater to upscale/mature people, whatever that means... but I assume that the market will change that in the future as downtown starts to fill up with more upscale condos.

[TheProf]

I agree, Cactus Leaguer, there's plenty of 'stuff to do' in Cleveland, it's very diverse. It just tends to be in pockets and at certain times. You just have to pick your spots. Go to Ohio City Sat morning/early afternoon, and you'd think Cleveland IS Chicago, or better. But go back the next day; or an average weekday night it's deadville. Same with downtown on Fri-Sat night vs., say, Sunday afternoon (w/ no sports going on) or an avg weekday night....

Chicago is 24-7. No mater what night or time of day, the Loop and other trendy Chi-town areas (of which there are many, and each are significant in terms of size), sizzle with foot-traffic, retail/restaurants and activity. No doubt, Chicago's much higher population and density have a lot to do with it, ... but there's a mentality difference btw the 2 cities as well... Cleveland's getting better, but it has miles and miles to go...

[BelieveInCleve]

Ive used Hopkins a few times, and thought it was a very good airport. It didnt have that long of lines, a good amount of flights, we got to the destinations pretty fast, and it wasnt too crowded. Its a big city airport but its not as bad as some of the other big city airports.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Hopkins is a nice airport, I have been there many times. But believe me, it simply does not stack up to Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, or Detroit for the number of nonstop flights. For someone who travels a lot, this is a big deal because it is a huge waste of time to have to fly to a different hub, change planes, and wait for the connecting flight.

I am not trying to bash Cleveland here... as I've said before, I think it compares favorably to many other similar-sized cities in terms of things to do and overall quality of life. But the airport, while it is nice, good service, can pretty much get you where you need to go, etc., it isn't as good as other similar sized metros and they (CLE + Akron-Canton) don't even come close to O'Hare + Midway in Chicago. Not a big deal if you only fly occasionally, but could be a big deal if you fly often.

[The Cactus Leaguer]

Originally Posted by TheProf

I agree, Cactus Leaguer, there's plenty of 'stuff to do' in Cleveland, it's very diverse. It just tends to be in pockets and at certain times. You just have to pick your spots. Go to Ohio City Sat morning/early afternoon, and you'd think Cleveland IS Chicago, or better. But go back the next day; or an average weekday night it's deadville. Same with downtown on Fri-Sat night vs., say, Sunday afternoon (w/ no sports going on) or an avg weekday night....

Chicago is 24-7. No mater what night or time of day, the Loop and other trendy Chi-town areas (of which there are many, and each are significant in terms of size), sizzle with foot-traffic, retail/restaurants and activity. No doubt, Chicago's much higher population and density have a lot to do with it, ... but there's a mentality difference btw the 2 cities as well... Cleveland's getting better, but it has miles and miles to go...

I agree with you 100%. I didn't intend to make it sound like I was arguing with you previously, so I apologize if I came across that way.

I'm trying to think of a city the size of Cleveland's that is 24-7 and I can't think of any. Austin is pretty lively relative to its size, but they are hardly 24-7 like Chicago, LA, NY, and other top 5 or even top 10 metros. No others come to mind. I do think there is a direct relation between the strength of the downtown core and how lively the city is, so to me, more sprawl = less lively.