Cleveland: Midwest or Northeastern/East Coast? (Columbus, Cincinnati: centers, wealthy, suburb)

[nei]

Originally Posted by Katiana

Well, the northeast is different, esp the east coast. Growing up in Pennsylvania, in the Pittsburgh area, we had a lot of both Italians and Jews, but not "everyone" was of such ancestry. In fact, most people in my hometown were either Italian or Polish. Well over 50% of the population was Catholic (that is the stat for Beaver County, PA now, and it was higher back then, and higher in some communities). Most of the Protestants were Presbyterian. I had people say "what's that?" when I said I was a Lutheran. There was a small but noticeable Jewish community in my hometown, and Pittsburgh has a fairly large such community. So, to get back on topic, perhaps Cleveland's demographics mean it is not east coast. (I never thought it was anyway.) But, I would like to emphasize not all midwestern cities are like Minneapolis, either.

Judging by the stats I posted earlier, the "interior/western NE urban counties" (Alleghany, PA, Erie, Niagara and Monroe, NY) have an Italian-American not too different than most urban/suburban NE coastal counties. Maybe on the lower side, but still similar. Ohio counties are lower. Jewish population seems more uneven in the NE, and it looks like they tend to concentrate in the largest corridor metros of the NE and not as much the smaller cities. Cleveland has quite a bit larger Jewish population than Pittsburgh, but so do some western cities (such as San Francisco and Los Angeles).

Where I grew up, a lot assumed Christian = Catholic. As to Catholics, CD claims the county I grew up (Suffolk, NY) is 76% Catholic, 10% Jewish, and the rest "other". The percentages appear to be out of adherents; the non-church/synagoue attending aren't counted in the totals. Still, the Catholic % sounds too high, I wonder if the Catholic Church count those who don't attend regularly as Catholic while Protestant churches follow a different reporting practice.

You might take a trip to Omaha and see for yourself.

I could, though it's far and don't have much reason to visit there otherwise. No offense to Omaha, but the area doesn't sound like a place that's worth taking a trip halfway across the country for. I'd like to see Pittsburgh moreso, but even there, same situation, a strange city where I know no one that would take 8.5 hours of driving or a clumsy flight and not too much reason to go there. Probably someday.

[nei]

Originally Posted by Natural510

Culturally, it's definitely Midwest. Visiting from another Ohio city to Cleveland, you don't feel as if you've left the state. However, the older Midwestern cities like Cleveland, Cincinnati and Saint Louis were built up during the Industrial Revolution the same as the Northeast corridor, so may make those people feel at home when they visit the older Midwestern cities.

Cleveland grew up around the same era as Buffalo and Pittsburgh but much later than the Northeast Corridor cities. The older Midwestern cities (as well as Buffalo and Pittsburgh) became major cities in the later part of the industrial revolution around 1900 while the Northeast Corridor have an older 19th century core. And no, for what I've seen, Midwestern cities would feel very different from someone used to Northeast Corridor cities as described here:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/28564482-post75.html

the population differences:

Historical Metropolitan Populations of the United States - Peakbagger.com

[Katarina Witt]

Originally Posted by nei

Judging by the stats I posted earlier, the "interior/western NE urban counties" (Alleghany, PA, Erie, Niagara and Monroe, NY) have an Italian-American not too different than most urban/suburban NE coastal counties. Maybe on the lower side, but still similar. Ohio counties are lower. Jewish population seems more uneven in the NE, and it looks like they tend to concentrate in the largest corridor metros of the NE and not as much the smaller cities. Cleveland has quite a bit larger Jewish population than Pittsburgh, but so do some western cities (such as San Francisco and Los Angeles).

Where I grew up, a lot assumed Christian = Catholic. As to Catholics, CD claims the county I grew up (Suffolk, NY) is 76% Catholic, 10% Jewish, and the rest "other". The percentages appear to be out of adherents; the non-church/synagoue attending aren't counted in the totals. Still, the Catholic % sounds too high, I wonder if the Catholic Church count those who don't attend regularly as Catholic while Protestant churches follow a different reporting practice.



I could, though it's far and don't have much reason to visit there otherwise. No offense to Omaha, but the area doesn't sound like a place that's worth taking a trip halfway across the country for. I'd like to see Pittsburgh moreso, but even there, same situation, a strange city where I know no one that would take 8.5 hours of driving or a clumsy flight and not too much reason to go there. Probably someday.

Whereas around here, Christian is assumed to mean "Fundamentalist Christian" or at best "Protestant", whereas some uninformed consider Catholic to mean something else altogether.

If I had to choose between Pgh and Omaha, I'd go with Pittsburgh. However, if you like college baseball, you could go to Omaha and watch the college world series.

[BigCityDreamer]

I think a pivotal question at this point is this:

What makes Cleveland seem to have more northeastern influences than Chicago? What factors contribute to this perception?

[Natural510]

Originally Posted by BigCityDreamer

I think a pivotal question at this point is this:

What makes Cleveland seem to have more northeastern influences than Chicago? What factors contribute to this perception?

Probably location, and nothing else. You make a good point.

[Cleverfield]

These maps really help illustrate how the demographics play into this debate. As you can see, the midwest is heavily populated with Germans, however Cleveland is on the outskirts of their population zone. The Northeast also has high numbers of Irish, Italians, Hungarians, etc., and Cleveland is on the age of those groups' population zones. What most people have been saying in this thread is correct it seems, it is very much a border land.

[usaf_1832]

^ Very interesting to see how German the Midwest truly is.

I'd add that the Eastside of the Cleveland metro feel more east coast due to demographics, from the high numbers of Italian (2nd most in the Midwest behind Chicago), Jewish (2nd most in the Midwest behind Chicago), and Black populations.

The Westside of Cleveland tends to feel more Midwest.

[natininja]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

These maps really help illustrate how the demographics play into this debate. As you can see, the midwest is heavily populated with Germans, however Cleveland is on the outskirts of their population zone. The Northeast also has high numbers of Irish, Italians, Hungarians, etc., and Cleveland is on the age of those groups' population zones. What most people have been saying in this thread is correct it seems, it is very much a border land.

Nice maps. Notice how SWO looks absolutely nothing like Alabama, contrary to BS you were propagating a couple weeks ago. Also notice how different SWO looks than even NKY.

Cleveland definitely has an interesting mix, but are you prepared to say the whole region around it with similar demographics is Northeastern? I mean, that'd be a significant chunk of Ohio.

[pgm123]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

These maps really help illustrate how the demographics play into this debate. As you can see, the midwest is heavily populated with Germans, however Cleveland is on the outskirts of their population zone. The Northeast also has high numbers of Irish, Italians, Hungarians, etc., and Cleveland is on the age of those groups' population zones. What most people have been saying in this thread is correct it seems, it is very much a border land.

Thanks for the maps. I've been really distracted looking through them for a while now.

[Dayton Sux]

What makes Cleveland seem to have more northeastern influences than Chicago? What factors contribute to this perception?

As a native Chicagoan I see the place more like Chicago....evem with the central/southern European ethnic groups (Chicago has a lot of Italians, too, tho Chicagos Little Italy was largely torn down for UIC.

There is a bit of a difference with the rapid transit, though, since they take power from overhead lines in Cleveland vs third rail, so you get a vague "Metro North" feel on the Rapid. Also, the apartment buildings along and near the line in Shaker Square are maybe...hmm...somehow vaguely "Northeast".