East suburbs of Cleveland becoming ghetto (Toledo, Akron: unemployment, purchases, vouchers)

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by reretarff

There are more reform people in the other suburbs because more reform people exist. Reform Jewish people often take Judaism less intensively than Orthodox Jewish people do, but that has nothing to do with the number of them in Cleveland Heights. Don't forget, Cleveland Heights doesn't only have Orthodox Jewish people, but also has a good sized reform population. I don't even know what the hell their religious practicing affecting their work hours has anything to do with the topic though. And those synagogues in Cleveland Heights haven't "shuttered", because a lot of them are more religious, attracting the Orthodox population of Cleveland, along with people from the suburbs. I live in Solon and I have lots of friends in Solon who go all the way to Cleveland Heights to temple, rather than to Beachwood because it's too mainstream. I also have a great aunt who lives in East Cleveland (Yeah, I know) and goes to synagogue in East Cleveland a few times a week.

Okay, this post is riddled with innacuracies. First of all, tell me what temple there is in EC? I honestly don't think there are any. Secondly, I can name you at least 3 Synagogues in CH and UH that have closed and/or moved: Taylor Road Synagogue, Heights Temple, Temple Emanu El. Additionally, the Cleveland Heights JCC closed several years ago. Thirdly, overall, the "Heights" (Shaker, UH, CH) has lost 4% of it's Jewish population in 15 years, while the Southeast suburbs have increased their jewish population by 44% (http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=2813). You can bet if that were broken down further to show CH alone, the decline would be greater, as the population has remained relatively stable in SH. The Orthodox synagogues, and Jewish stores/restaurants such as those along Taylor Road hang on, but they represent only a portion of what was once a much stronger, and more diverse Jewish population. And fourthly, the reason I talked about the relative poverty of Orthodox jews is that we were talking about suburbs becoming ghetto. The orthodox tend not to contribute as much economically to a city as the less religious sects do. Just ask Israel, it's a problem there as well.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

There is no way a majority of CH is Jewish.

It's just not true.

Did I say a majority of Cleveland Heights is Jewish?

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by reretarff

Cleveland Heights is mostly Jewish and is attracting a younger wave of people.

Here. I'm not sure what you mean by "mostly Jewish." Mostly = majority.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Here. I'm not sure what you mean by "mostly Jewish." Mostly = majority.

I meant as in having a large population of

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

Okay, this post is riddled with innacuracies. First of all, tell me what temple there is in EC? I honestly don't think there are any. Secondly, I can name you at least 3 Synagogues in CH and UH that have closed and/or moved: Taylor Road Synagogue, Heights Temple, Temple Emanu El. Additionally, the Cleveland Heights JCC closed several years ago. Thirdly, overall, the "Heights" (Shaker, UH, CH) has lost 4% of it's Jewish population in 15 years, while the Southeast suburbs have increased their jewish population by 44% (http://www.jewishdatabank.org/Studie...fm?FileID=2813). You can bet if that were broken down further to show CH alone, the decline would be greater, as the population has remained relatively stable in SH. The Orthodox synagogues, and Jewish stores/restaurants such as those along Taylor Road hang on, but they represent only a portion of what was once a much stronger, and more diverse Jewish population. And fourthly, the reason I talked about the relative poverty of Orthodox jews is that we were talking about suburbs becoming ghetto. The orthodox tend not to contribute as much economically to a city as the less religious sects do. Just ask Israel, it's a problem there as well.

The East Cleveland was a typo. I meant Cleveland Heights. The Taylor Road Synagogue is still being used by a Jewish school, but is selling the synagogue part of the building to a new owner. If by "The Heights Temple" you mean Beth El, then it's still in Cleveland Heights in the original synagogue. Emanu El moved to Orange because they needed a new facility. The Cleveland Heights JCC closed and moved to Beachwood because there are more Jewish people in and around Beachwood than in and around Cleveland Heights. It's just a matter of location. Cleveland Heights is like 20 minutes of schlepping from the southeast suburbs, but it is only a short 5 minute drive on 271 to Beachwood from the southeast suburbs. And a 4% drop in population between 3 cities in a matter of 15 years isn't that significant. And that happened because of the boom in growth in the southeast suburbs in the late 90's. The stores along Taylor Road are doing fine and not only are there stores there, but also a ton around Cedar Road. Yes there were more of them, but that was like 50 years ago when nobody lived in Beachwood, Solon, Orange, or any of the southeast suburbs. Back then, the Jewish population was just leaving the Glenville area and moving to the Cleveland Heights University Heights area. And it's not the Orthodox Jewish population that is causing the suburbs to become "ghetto" if it's even appropriate to describe a suburb as that. The only ghetto Cleveland has is the city of Cleveland and East Cleveland, which are predominately African American, contain relatively no Jewish population, and are in such bad shape, the houses are falling apart. That is not happening at all in Cleveland Heights or University Heights, which are in great shape right now.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by reretarff

I meant as in having a large population of

Hmm. There's quite a big difference between the two, but ok...

[Cleverfield]

^Oy vei. Spoken like a true nudnick non-Jewish person from Solon who doesn't know what's really happening here. All of those stores on Taylor and Cedar are Orthodox. B'nai Yeshurin is the temple I was referring to as Heights Temple, and it moved quite a while ago to Beachwood. The Orthodox population, concentrated in a relatively small area, East of Taylor road, and around Cedar-Green in UH, remains strong-- probably the strongest anywhere in the US outside of NYC, but most of the less religious Jews have moved to the outer burbs (SH retains a strong population of less religious Jews). The parts of CH and UH that were once thriving Conservative and Reform Jewish neighborhoods are now mostly African American, with dropping home values and higher crime.

[ColdAilment]

Cleveland as a whole is shrinking. Even the metro area itself is shedding population, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by ColdAilment

Cleveland as a whole is shrinking. Even the metro area itself is shedding population, this shouldn't come as a huge surprise.

The metro is not really losing as much as your post suggests. I think things will stabalize soon.

[ColdAilment]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

The metro is not really losing as much as your post suggests. I think things will stabalize soon.

I think Cleveland is the only metro over 500,000 in the entire country, besides Detroit, that is losing population. There's a reason people are moving away from here I believe. I hope you're right and that the area stabilizes, I harbor no ill will towards Cleveland and know it offers a lot. Plenty of history there, believe Andrew Carnegie was from there too.