moving to cleveland in january (Cincinnati, Parma: to rent, house, buy)

[Donna7]

How can SC not be friendly? Isn't it the state of "smiling faces and great places"? I don't know, but when I am in SC, I LOVE the people.

As far as Cleveland, OH - good luck to you. January is an awesome time in NE OH - and as they say, "Cleveland rocks!" Of course, they're living in California while they're saying that...but don't pay any attention to that.

Good luck on your move.

[paintballer1708]

Subway,

No, first off the unemployment rates for the city of Cleveland were what i stated, NOT the metro area. And if you notice the whole nation experienced a major rise in unemployment. You visit some three times a year? I worked there for two as an urban planner. Did you work for the city government of any sorts? I know what was going on. There are billions in investment going in. I dont know why Cleveland would consider building a new office building if the downtown vacancy rate was down? They are also building 515 Euclid Tower like i mentioned before, which will be a 20 story office tower that will be commerical as well as residential. The downtown is always booming and has great pedistrian traffic. Like i said the downtown population has grown over 32% since 2000. Go there on mid-week or on Friday nights. The downtown is really popular with the suburbanites. If you noticed what i said before, i have friends up in Detroit who tell me this all the time. In Detroit the suburbanites pride themselves on not even stepping a foot in the downtown area. They see who has gone the longest without being in the downtown. It is in such bad shape. It is the opposite in Cleveland. Suburbanites go to downtown Cleveland on Fridays, and you are seeing this in many comeback cities like Baltimore, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis.

Like you said, you are reading about the Cleveland economy. I worked with many people, and i still talk to many of my friends who still work up there and keep telling me how well it is doing, and how busy they are. I actually worked with this stuff. My story sounds a lot like yours. I am from Pittsburgh and most of my family has moved out of the area. Pittsburgh's metro area is also loosing people. That doesnt mean that the economy is bad.

Cleveland if you know seperated from the Akron/Canton metro which is really booming and growing. If they were to become one metro again they would be well over three million. Cleveland's metro just started declining only about a year ago. The suburbs are really booming and with growth in the downtown it's not projected to decline much longer. You are comparing Cleveland's metro to Detroit's. So many of my neighbors in my development in Westlake were from the Detroit metro, esp the suburb of Livonia, Michigan. They always would tell us how much better it is down in Cleveland. I remember telling this story numerous times on here. Many people moving to the Cleveland metro are coming from New York, New Jersey, and Michigan. Esp the Buffalo and Detroit areas.

Cleveland took a slowdown in the mid 90s when they went through a huge boom. Well now that boom is back. I can list all the new developments if you like. Most of them are over the billion dollar category. I have the list in my old briefcase. I have a new one now since i have made the move here to Cincinnati. Just ask and i can give you the projects. I dont have to go out of my way to get it. This is all the stuff that is getting built or in the approved stages. See a building gets proposed, city council looks at it, sees how it will benefit as well as cause some problems, then if they like it, they approve it. It sounds simple, but really it isnt. I look at cities like Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. All have made amazing comebacks and just because the cities arent growing it doesnt mean that their economies are shrinking like the population. BTW, Cleveland has shown a great slowdown in population decline since the 90s. Thats due to the new housing projects going up around the city. (NOT INCLUDING THE DOWNTOWN) Esp on the east side of the city. The suburbs have shown strong growth since 2000. Esp the western and SE suburbs.

Akron/Canton like i mentioned are showing strong signs of growth rates. The growth in Cleveland's metro has slowed down only for a year. Like i said, the Census Bureau estimates Cleveland's metro to grow within the next 2-3 years. The unemployment rate is not even bad in the suburbs of the city. Go look at Detroit's suburbs which seem to stradle right around the same as the city of Detroit's. Some are even worse, like Dearborn. When you check out the unemployment rates, make sure you check out other cities and other metros, because you will notice a sharp increase all across the country. It was a national event back in April and May.

[paintballer1708]

nikki, good luck on the move. Charelston is nice. It has a lot more to it than Columbia. I just dont think Columbia is planned out very well. Although the freeway system along I-77 is very good for a city of Columbia's size. Many lanes and traffic congestion is not near as bad as Charlotte.

[nikkiyc]

LOL, thanks donna. that's funny because when we first found out that we were going to cleveland, that's the first thing that popped in my head, was the drew carey show, and the theme, "cleveland rocks!"

as for south carolina, i think their plate should say frowning faces! i mean, i can't speak for the rest of the state, it's just that our personal experience in columbia made us want to leave, and never look back. we have just encountered so many rude and unfriendly people. as i said before, it really shocked me, because when you think of sc, you think of southern hospitality, but we didn't experience that. obviously we have encountered some nice people here and there, but mostly rude. but again, that's just the experience we had.

well anyway, hopefully cleveland really will rock!

[Subway]

paintballer:

I'm not trying to bust your chops, but the vast majority of the verifiable facts contradict what you have been saying about Cleveland's supposed boom.

Here is an employment report from April of this year from the Federal Reserve Bank of Cleveland: http://www.clevelandfed.org/Research...conditions.cfm

Here are a few highlights from that report:

*****"Over the past year, Cleveland has lost 0.2% of its total employment, compared to the nation’s 1.6% gain. The MSA’s employment growth trailed the nation’s in every industry but leisure and hospitality. And, although manufacturing employment growth in the Cleveland MSA has been improving, it lost 0.5% over the year, exceeding the U.S. loss of 0.3%."*****

*****"Part of Cleveland’s weak overall employment growth also results from its slow population growth. The MSA’s population growth generally has mirrored the nation’s but has trailed it by an average of 1.1% since 1980. Since 1997, the MSA has been losing residents."*****

*****"The MSA’s low or negative population growth may also contribute to its relatively high office and rental vacancy rates. In 2005, its rental vacancy rate was 18.3%, nearly double the nation’s 9.7%."*****

Also, here is a link that gives the most recent (August) unemployment rates for all 366 metropolitan areas: http://stats.bls.gov/web/laummtrk.htm

As you can see, Cleveland's rank is #278. Memphis and Detroit are the only two major metro areas that rank worse than Cleveland. As for Cleveland's 1% increase from May to August of this year that I previously mentioned, Columbus' only increased 0.4% over the same period and Cincinnati's only increased 0.3%. The state of Ohio's increased 0.5%. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?la+39

As for the city of Cleveland's unemployment rate, the correct figure is between what each of us said - it's actually 7.4%. http://www.economagic.com/em-cgi/dat.../laups39037003

As for the Cleveland metro's population loss, it has been declining since 1997 (as stated in the report from the Fed that I linked earlier in this post), not just for the past year as you stated. Also, it's a bit of a stretch to say that the Akron and Canton metros are "booming." Akron grew 1% and Canton grew 0.8% from 2000-2005. If the Akron and Canton metros are booming, then so is the Detroit metro, which grew 0.8%. By contrast, the Cincinnati metro grew 3% and the Columbus metro grew 5.9%. The Cleveland metro shrank 1%. http://www.census.gov/population/www...ges_final.html

I simply cannot understand why the rosy picture you keep painting about Cleveland's economy is nowhere to be found in the media. While I haven't lived in Cleveland in six years, I do visit two or three times per year as I said. I also frequently talk to many relatives and friends who still live there (all but one of them moved out of the city of Cleveland since I moved, as I previously stated, but the majority of them still live in the metro area). In addition, I purchase and thoroughly read the Sunday edition of The Plain Dealer every week at a bookstore here in Cincy. And, as you can easily tell, I also keep up to date about Cleveland on the Web. Again, almost everything that I see, read and hear indicates that Cleveland is once again the antithesis of a "comeback city." However, for folks such as nikkiyc and her husband, who already has a job lined up, I agree that suburban Cleveland is not a bad place to live if they don't mind the winters. Would I ever want to live in the Cleveland area again? Definitely not - I definitely prefer Cincy. As for other places in the Midwest, I think I would also prefer Indianapolis and Columbus over Cleveland. If I ever decide to move out of Cincy, which isn't likely anytime soon, I'll most likely head to the Pacific Northwest.

BTW, a good thing about Cleveland that I don't think has been mentioned is that it has the least amount of traffic congestion of the 39 largest metro areas. http://tti.tamu.edu/documents/mobility_report_2005.pdf

Another BTW: I'm curious as to why you left Cleveland for Cincy, but I certainly understand if you don't want to answer for personal reasons.

[hairmetal4ever]

If you don't mind a LOT of lake effect snow, pick Painesville. Painesville is a great town but you'll get a LOT of snow!

If you want less snow, then pick a nice West Side area like North Olmstead, Strongsville, Brunswick or even south to Medina, Twinsburg, or Hudson...which by that time you're really more Akron than Cleveland by the time you get down to Hudson...

[Subway]

Although Twinsburg and Hudson don't get the extreme amounts of snow that Geauga County, Lake County and eastern Cuyahoga County get, they do get more than the western suburbs. Even though it's further from Lake Erie, northern Summit County typically gets more snow than western Cuyahoga County; it also gets more than Lorain County and Medina County.

Here is a map that details Ohio's average annual snowfall: http://ohioinsurance.org/factbook/20...chapter4_k.asp

Also, here is a good article from a Cleveland TV station about the snow belt and lafe-effect in snow in northeast Ohio: http://www.weathernet5.com/weather/1881775/detail.html

FWIW, this upcoming winter is expected to be a mild one in Ohio and most of the nation because of El Nino. http://www.cpc.ncep.noaa.gov/product...off_index.html

[Subway]

paintballer:

I forgot to include the following link in the post I made yesterday in which I presented you with numerous current links about Cleveland's poor economy: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/1/2888.html

That's from the 2006 version of the annual Forbes' "Best Places For Business and Careers." Cleveland's overall rank is #174 out of 200 and its rank in the category of job growth is #192 out of 200.

[paintballer1708]

Subway,

I moved to Cincinnati right at about the end of August. I had the oppurtunity to come down to either Columbus or Cincinnati. The reason i chose to was because it is awesome down here. The cities are great, booming, and SW Ohio is just an overall great place to live. My job was offering a move, and i decided to take it. Cincinnati is a booming city. LOL i have found myself
itting in my office till 10 pm some nights. We are very busy down here in Cincinnati with all the new development along the rivefront and throughout the city itself. I agree 110% with you, this is truly a great area to live in. If you dont mind me asking, where do you live in the Cincinnati metro? I really like Mason even though it is growing very fast just like the rest of Warren County. Isnt Warren County the 25th fastest growing county in the nation? I havent checked the census bureau since their new release on the new data. Columbus and Cincinnati have been voted some of the best places to live in the nation. Really good job markets down here.

I really do like that you found the information and really try to help people out. I myself am the same way. Always getting information to help people out, and get them set on the right track. Cleveland truly is a great city. It hit a boom in the early 90s and its back today. I myself like I said, find that your story and my story are very similar. Im originally from Pittsburgh, and i go back to visit friends and family very often. I read about the area in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette. A lot of the information is depressing. But i know Pittsburgh is also on the rebound. To see how far both Cleveland and Pittsburgh have come since the 70s is amazing. Pittsburgh is a lot like Cincinnati, but Cincinnati has a much better job market, and is creating jobs much faster. I also like what is going on with the Cincinnati riverfront and how it is booming. Pittsburgh is working on that with their rivefront now, just like Cleveland with their lakefront.

With my job comes traveling to a lot of cities, and seeing what is going on. Cleveland really is in good shape compared to a lot of other cities out there. Cleveland is not a Atlanta or Miami, but compare it to LA, Detroit, Dallas, or Kansas City, you will see a big differance. Like i said this boom is just now coming back to Cleveland. You will see a lot more change within the next few years. Not to many cities are seeing this go on except Baltimore, Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, and St. Louis. Over 85% of the big projects going on in Cleveland are over the billion dollar mark. Cleveland truly is a city of change and the change is moving in the right direction.

I didnt mean to seem like i was fighting you with this. I in no way intended for that. You seem very well educated compared to most people you meet out there today. LOL most have no idea what kind of shape a city is in. Most see the suburbs and fall in love with the area. To me its all about the city and the core itself. LOL this is the urban planner in me talking. Lets just put it this way, I hate to see SPRAWL. What i really like that is going on in some of these comeback cities is that they are putting money to where it belongs, and that is to the city core to the city itself. We need to help the places that created the suburbs. You know? In every major metro across the nation, including Miami and Las Vegas, you are seeing the suburbs boom while the city core is struggling. But it is starting to change.

It has been nice getting to know you, Subway and hear your story on where you came from. Welcome to the forum.

[Subway]

paintballer:

Thanks much for your kind words. I definitely did not think that you were coming across as fighting me with this. I was worried that I may have been coming across as fighting you, which was definitely not my intention. I'm very sorry if I did come across that way at all. I'm glad that I discovered this forum. It's obvious from your many posts that you truly want to help people out. If I contribute just 1/4 as much as you do, I'll be doing a ton of good! Of course, I'm also here to learn. Even though I personally do not want to live there again, I'd like to see Cleveland do well and I'm glad that you are confident that the boom is coming back. I'll be rooting for it, and you are convincing me that the boom will be showing up in the statistics in the years to come.

To answer your question, I currently live in Harrison, which is right by the Ohio/Indiana border, 23 miles NW of downtown Cincy. I like Harrison quite a bit. It's more like a small Midwestern town than a typical suburb, but it is gradually becoming more suburban. The place in NE Ohio that it is probably most similar to is Medina, although it's definitely smaller than Medina. When I relocated to the Cincy area, I initially lived in Withamsville, which is a subdivision of Union Township in Clermont County. All in all, Union Township was okay, but the ridiculous rush-hour traffic on Beechmont Ave./OH-125 as well as OH-32 was causing my blood pressure to rise far too often! The other thing I didn't like about Union Township was that there was more crime than you would expect given its location; what's easy to miss about Union Township until after you move there is that it has quite a few slum-like apartment complexes scattered around. I think you definitely made a wise choice with Mason/Warren County. I haven't been able to find where Warren County currently ranks nationally, but I know that it is the 2nd fastest growing county out of 88 in Ohio. It was 77th nationally for the period 1994-2004. Also, I read that it's current estimated population of 205,000 is expected to grow to 476,000 by 2024.

Thank you for sharing your story as well. Our stories certainly are similar. Welcome to SW Ohio!