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Old 09-20-2013, 09:28 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,222 posts, read 4,160,054 times
Reputation: 2549

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It seems, based on what businesses have said, such as in this article Help wanted: Local manufacturers have jobs they can't fill because of skills gap | cleveland.com, that there are not enough skilled and educated people living in Cleveland. In addition, it seems like highly educated people are looked down upon here, as if they are arrogant if they speak properly and know a lot of things. This is one of the most disappointing things about Cleveland for me. I returned here with high hopes of making the region a better place to live, and still want to do that, but I'm finding it difficult to relate to people who have either no college degrees, or college degree from "party schools" like OU and Kent State. I want the region to get better, I really do, but I just don't think people here value education as much as people do elsewhere. Maybe it really is true that Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco and New York are better than we are, not just bigger. They attract smarter, more educated, more talented people. I'm really not sure what I should do. On the one hand I still want to help Cleveland, but on the other, I feel my talents would be better appreciated, and I would find more relatable people in a larger, more first tier city. I'm feeling pretty down right now, so if anyone wants to persuade me otherwise, they're welcome to.
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Old 09-20-2013, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,690 posts, read 8,912,497 times
Reputation: 8669
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
It seems, based on what businesses have said, such as in this article Help wanted: Local manufacturers have jobs they can't fill because of skills gap | cleveland.com, that there are not enough skilled and educated people living in Cleveland. In addition, it seems like highly educated people are looked down upon here, as if they are arrogant if they speak properly and know a lot of things. This is one of the most disappointing things about Cleveland for me. I returned here with high hopes of making the region a better place to live, and still want to do that, but I'm finding it difficult to relate to people who have either no college degrees, or college degree from "party schools" like OU and Kent State. I want the region to get better, I really do, but I just don't think people here value education as much as people do elsewhere. Maybe it really is true that Chicago, Seattle, San Francisco and New York are better than we are, not just bigger. They attract smarter, more educated, more talented people. I'm really not sure what I should do. On the one hand I still want to help Cleveland, but on the other, I feel my talents would be better appreciated, and I would find more relatable people in a larger, more first tier city. I'm feeling pretty down right now, so if anyone wants to persuade me otherwise, they're welcome to.
There are idiots everywhere. Plenty here in Boston as well. I think it's a mistake to look at any place as a kind of "Promised Land." Maybe you did that for Cleveland too much. But just because Cleveland isn't perfect, doesn't mean New York or Seattle is. Trust me, there's stuff to complain about everywhere. I personally think Cleveland has a lot going for it and I want to come back some day. I also think your stereotyping an entire region based on the few people that you know who you deem to not appreciate the right things. Sounds like you might just need to make some new friends or something.
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Old 09-21-2013, 05:35 AM
 
1,066 posts, read 2,156,102 times
Reputation: 636
I know where you're coming from. You will run into this sort of thing everywhere in the US outside of NYC, Chicago, DC, SF, and a select few cities. And bjimmy is right. Cities like NYC and Chicago also have a large population of insular working class people. But those cities are large and cosmopolitan enough to counterbalance the proletariat(heh) mindset. All of a sudden those roughneck working class 'hoods become "interesting" and "the real (insert city name here)". (ever notice how yuppies view the city they live in as some sort of zoo. "And over here, you'll find people who live here because they have no means of leaving *gasp* how fascinating(!)"

And I know exactly what you mean with the OU/Kent/MAC schools thing. Don't get me wrong, they're all nice schools(my username was created in jest). But it seems like college was stressed so strongly to the millennials that a ton of people went to college who, a generation ago, would likely have been digging ditches or working on the factory line instead. A lot the people who "study" in Athens would have been better off doing something other than majoring in booze and women for 4(+) years. I hate picking on OU but they seem to have an especially high concentration of tools in attendance in any given year.

If you live in certain parts of the United States(especially outside BosWash corridor and the West coast) you have to pick your battles and make the most out of it. Find a neighborhood with a large concentration of the type of people you're looking for and make the most of it.

A big part of the issue is that Cleveland companies have been moving to the suburbs for ages. This is a logical move-- it's closer to most of the families that work there. However, if a company wants to attract the sort of bright young minds that newspapers keep fawning over, they need to set up shop closer to city center. Most new college grads are not going to be very excited about the prospects of moving across the country to work in Mentor. However, many more might consider the unique attractions to living somewhere like Cleveland. It isn't as sexy as NYC or Chicago, but hey, you can get an apartment in the city..take the rapid to work...****, you can live a block from one of the largest public markets in the country. Those are selling points. What can you say about Mentor? Or Westlake? Or any outer ring suburb for that matter? "Hey, you can be the only people in your neighborhood without 3 kids and a mini van"? (To be fair, this issue isn't unique to Cleveland....trust me.)

Anyway, I don't where you've lived before Cleveland, but there's nothing wrong with just moving to experience something else. Just don't do it thinking you will find some kind of mecca elsewhere. It doesn't exist. Wherever you live, search for things which interest you and make the most of it. Moving anywhere to "try and find yourself" is a total waste of time. It never works. I'm willing to be there is something else amiss in your life and Cleveland has become the scapegoat. Whatever you're looking for, it's probably in Cleveland. You just need to change your perspective.

[Corny Pinterest quote Disclaimer]: Life's a journey, not a destination.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Cleveland, OH
9,690 posts, read 8,912,497 times
Reputation: 8669
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksu sucks View Post
I hate picking on OU but they seem to have an especially high concentration of tools in attendance in any given year.
I lol'd.

But yeah, Cleverfield, where do you live in Cleveland now, what kind of work do you do, and where did you go to college? Just interested in the background here. If you grew up in cleveland, have you done anything to find people that you didn't grow up with? When I moved back to CLeveland after college, I got so depressed because I was with the same people from grade school that I didn't really like anyway. That's when I found out how much other stuff was going on in Cleveland. I was able to meet some cool people through meetups and some part time jobs. Made my CLE life a lot better. I'd recommend if you grew up on the east side, move to the west side. Or if you grew up on the west side, move to the east side. It's almost like moving to a different city.

But I'd also say that I think Cleveland has a large number of people that are well-educated and have "refined" intrests, for lack of a better word. Spenind time at University Circle and Little Italy, I really feel that. The Cleveland Clinic also brings in a lot of educated people. I think they're out there.

But the problem I do see with Cleveland, and ksusucks already said this, but it's still not enough of a "city." By that I mean, it's still easy and sometimes even advantageous to live in far away suburbs, stunting cohesive city growth. It seems like that trend is starting to reverse, but it takes time. I am frustrated watching some developments, like the "Opporunity" Corridor. I don't understand why we're still trying to cater to 55 year old suburbanites and their cars. Driving in Boston sucks. There is never anywhere to park, and even if you do find somewhere, it costs a ton. It also takes forever to go anywhere. You'd think people would be leaving in droves? Nope. I wish Cleveland would learn.

Maybe it would be good to move somewhere else. I have learned how much I appreciate my hometown by living elsewhere. I've also seen how it could be better. But to echo the previous post, you will not "find yourself" somewhere else. Be careful of having such high expectations from other cities, as well as from Cleveland. Just focus on yourself and the things you can actually change.
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Old 09-21-2013, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,222 posts, read 4,160,054 times
Reputation: 2549
Okay since you asked bjimmy, here's my story. I grew up in Cleveland, and have lived here all my life, except for four years when I went to college in Minnesota. I went to Shaker High for high school, and then Carleton College, one of the top 10 liberal arts colleges in the country, that attracts students from all over the country. Carleton opened my eyes to the fact that even Shaker, considered one of the best school districts in the area, left me unprepared for the rigors of Carleton compared to my peers from elite public schools on the coasts, or private schools.

Before I went to college, I worked at the Natural History Museum, and some of the workers there who lived in Cleveland introduced me to the things to do and see in the city, outside of Downtown and UC, the only places in the city that I had thus far ventured. They took me to Sokolowski's, Asian Town, The Harp, the WSM and other interesting places. It was at that point that I fell in love with the city. I had been uninspired by the suburbs, but the city was interesting in a gritty, kitschy, old worldy cultural way. Cleveland had a character that I found both surprising and inspiring.

When I graduated college last year, I determined to come back to Cleveland, buy a house in the city, and help the city get better, help it move forward. I was offered a job at a small construction company owned by a friend of mine right out of college, and that is where I work today. That might be part of the problem, because many of those workers are uneducated, in fact I'm the only employee who's been through a four year college. When I speak to them in a professional, articulate manner, I think they think I'm condescending, because that's not how they talk. I've seen this apparent disdain for education elsewhere too, such as in the volunteer activities I do. I felt like I was looked down on for starting a reading program at a volunteer summer camp, rather than helping in the kitchen for instance. I also see it on the boards of Cleveland.com, where people are constantly complaining about the school reform program going on in Cleveland, and show their lack of education through grammatical and spelling errors, and terrible arguments. I know educated people exist here, but the brain drain, and Cleveland's industrial legacy are very apparent. I did buy a house in North Collinwood, and am in the process of rehabbing it. That area has a smattering of artists, and entrepreneurs, among a lot of people who have lived in Cleveland all their lives. But the area is diverse, interesting, and it does seem like most of the people there really are interested in seeing Cleveland improve, so we'll see if my attitude changes when I start living there.
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Old 09-21-2013, 06:17 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
2,527 posts, read 3,862,745 times
Reputation: 2835
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cleverfield View Post
Okay since you asked bjimmy, here's my story. I grew up in Cleveland, and have lived here all my life, except for four years when I went to college in Minnesota. I went to Shaker High for high school, and then Carleton College, one of the top 10 liberal arts colleges in the country, that attracts students from all over the country. Carleton opened my eyes to the fact that even Shaker, considered one of the best school districts in the area, left me unprepared for the rigors of Carleton compared to my peers from elite public schools on the coasts, or private schools.

Before I went to college, I worked at the Natural History Museum, and some of the workers there who lived in Cleveland introduced me to the things to do and see in the city, outside of Downtown and UC, the only places in the city that I had thus far ventured. They took me to Sokolowski's, Asian Town, The Harp, the WSM and other interesting places. It was at that point that I fell in love with the city. I had been uninspired by the suburbs, but the city was interesting in a gritty, kitschy, old worldy cultural way. Cleveland had a character that I found both surprising and inspiring.

When I graduated college last year, I determined to come back to Cleveland, buy a house in the city, and help the city get better, help it move forward. I was offered a job at a small construction company owned by a friend of mine right out of college, and that is where I work today. That might be part of the problem, because many of those workers are uneducated, in fact I'm the only employee who's been through a four year college. When I speak to them in a professional, articulate manner, I think they think I'm condescending, because that's not how they talk. I've seen this apparent disdain for education elsewhere too, such as in the volunteer activities I do. I felt like I was looked down on for starting a reading program at a volunteer summer camp, rather than helping in the kitchen for instance. I also see it on the boards of Cleveland.com, where people are constantly complaining about the school reform program going on in Cleveland, and show their lack of education through grammatical and spelling errors, and terrible arguments. I know educated people exist here, but the brain drain, and Cleveland's industrial legacy are very apparent. I did buy a house in North Collinwood, and am in the process of rehabbing it. That area has a smattering of artists, and entrepreneurs, among a lot of people who have lived in Cleveland all their lives. But the area is diverse, interesting, and it does seem like most of the people there really are interested in seeing Cleveland improve, so we'll see if my attitude changes when I start living there.
Try teaching in an inner city high school in an East Coast city like Boston. I've done that already. Believe me, you will find so many more poorly educated individuals than you think in East Coast cities. Standardized test scores mean nothing because they all get prepped to take and pass them. It's a problem that affects all major cities in the US, not just the Midwest. I myself went to a hardworking public high school in Boston where good work ethic was essential and nothing was ever handed to anyone while many college chums either went to suburban high schools or local private schools that coddled and sheltered them too much or to less rigorous inner city schools that put them at a disadvantage. I found college easy compared to high school while others found college harder and some spun and burned along the way. What difference does it make whether you're in Boston or Cleveland? It has to do with individual schools or even individual experiences, not entire regions. I'm pretty sure there are highly educated and hardworking individuals in the Cleve. Just hang around places like the Cleveland Clinic, University Circle or even the Federal Reserve Bank and you will find them. It is a virtue to want to improve your home city as I always want to improve mine but change is not easy and takes time.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:04 PM
 
329 posts, read 396,461 times
Reputation: 409
I find it interesting that you state that people who went to OU do not have a real degree. Some how, I went to OU and got a fake degree and now make over $100,000. While OU does party, people actually do work hard and party at the same time.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:37 PM
 
Location: Cleveland
3,222 posts, read 4,160,054 times
Reputation: 2549
You show your lack of reading comprehension skills, a skill that a reputable college should have taught you. I never said they do not have a real degree, all I said is that they are a party school, which you appear to be agreeing with. You also show your lack of analytical understanding of statistics. One person making a lot of money after graduating from a given school doesn't make said school a good school. Income and education may correlate, but you may be an exception to the rule. Interestingly, if you look at this website comparing the average incomes of graduates of various colleges, Ohio University ranks in at a lowly 370. Kent State is even worse off at 695.

http://www.payscale.com/college-sala...ist-of-schools
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Old 09-22-2013, 09:06 PM
 
Location: Ak-Rowdy, OH
1,522 posts, read 2,627,662 times
Reputation: 1132
If you're drawing your conclusions from a group of individuals that have not attended college and newspaper comment sections I don't see why you expect any different. There are socioeconomic stratas for more reasons than some sort of economic conspiracy. And honestly many times if you're going out of your way to do something people will talk bad about you regardless of their educational attainment; it's human nature.

I think perhaps you are making the fatal Cleveland assumption that somehow the negatives are unique to the region. I assure you they are not. Pull up a few daily newspapers from across the US and check their comment sections. You will find the same type of morons there as here.

A suggestion: join some young professional groups and get involved with like minded individuals. You may have a different opinion then.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Beachwood, OH
1,135 posts, read 1,562,159 times
Reputation: 978
I won't call it elitism, though you're perhaps close. Let's go with idealism. Congratulations, you're losing it! And this is a good thing because it allows you to better embrace reality.

Here's the truth. Going to the opera or having elaborate dinner parties where you discuss literature or having philosophical debates with a rando you meet at your local artisan coffee shop... those things almost never happen in the real world. Why? Because only a few people like doing that kind of ****. You're not going to force the world to enjoy it. So you can accept that fact or you can ***** about it not changing.

Make do with the Broadway Series at Playhouse Square, relaxed cookouts with close friends, and talks about your kids (have kids first) at your local farmers market.
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