Cleveland's Loss of National Relevance (Canton, Westlake: townhouses, find a job, safe area)

[Cleverfield]

Anyone who has paid attention to what is going on in the city lately will realize that Cleveland is most definitely on a huge upswing. $10 Billion+ have been invested in the city by mostly private businesses in the last 5 years or so, and new projects are being announced all the time. New projects are getting so frequent that it's hard to keep track of them all (just ask Costello_Musician). Cleveland, while it still has problems, is not the financially devastated city of the 1970's and 80's. We have a mayor who has balanced our budget, encouraged business growth, and improved city services during one of the biggest recessions of the past 100 years. Cleveland is poised to take off; it's just a matter of seeing the signs, which you can't from the confines of Crocker Park, Beachwood Place, or Legacy Village.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

Do you live in NE Ohio? Ashtabula County is 1 hour from Cleveland, and is considered part of Appalachia. Their main industry is meth. It's a pretty bad sign if people from Ashtabula would rather move to Columbus (or stay in Ashtabula) than move to Cleveland.

No but I did stop by in Ashtabula itself just to see the lake on my way back home. I don't consider it part of Appalachia or anything like it at all (having been to West Virginia and the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia in the past). There are some tidal flats and a harbor that looked as if it could belong in coastal New England. I actually found it quite picturesque. Perhaps Cleveland is a bit too urban for their tastes. We've got people like that here in N.E. who would prefer to stay put or move to smaller cities but not Boston. That doesn't surprise me.

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

Do you live in NE Ohio? Ashtabula County is 1 hour from Cleveland, and is considered part of Appalachia. Their main industry is meth. It's a pretty bad sign if people from Ashtabula would rather move to Columbus (or stay in Ashtabula) than move to Cleveland.

And, I'm sure you can quantify and prove everything in that statement.

Fun fact: Pittsburgh is part of Appalachia too. Does that mean their main industry China White?

"Give it time, things will get better" has been Cleveland's slogan for the past 50 years

It has? Funny, I don't recall ever hearing that. The Best Location in the Nation, Cleveland Rocks, Cleveland's a Plum, America's North Coast, well, yes. Your made up on the spot drivel, never. Maybe you should contact Positively Cleveland and see if they'll use it.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

cincinnati would absolutely disagree. not entirely without merit either.

Sorry, but Cleveland was leagues ahead of Cinci in its day. Not anymore since Cleveland has been declining or stagnating the past 50 years or so. Cleveland was the population and economic bomb of the state for quite some time. Cleveland was the ''big'' city compared to Cinci; not even mentioning Columbus.

[TBideon]

There is a lot to argue with the OP's first post and I disagree with a good chunk of it. However, I will concede one point implicit to the topic, and that is the utter apathy and disinterest of the recent mayoral race is very concerning for a city trying to reclaim some kind of regional, if not national, relevance. Not only was the race a foregone conclusion but it just seemed meaningless overall. It was an 'eh' at best. Barely talked about, barely discussed outside of a few platitudes by local news, and the opponent appeared to stop running weeks before the election itself.

Until Mayor White's reign in the 90's, it seemed there were a number of strong candidates every race who really gave a $hit. They had unions and business and religious leaders and law firm support and debates and controversies and polarizing viewpoints -- all of which made for interesting and exciting races, and probably said something about the importance of the city too. Candidates seemed relevant and excited about the prospect of running for mayorship.

White came and we seemed satisfied with him. No one frankly remembers Campbell, and Jackson is basically the default mayor, the likable guy who doesn't seem to have a corrupt bone, yet also appears meek and won't take chances. I don't know what would happen in case of a local disaster, but I feel Jackson just wouldn't have the strong but calming presence of a Guiliani or Menino.

If a mayor reflects a city on some level, and the mayoral race reflects the momentum and excitement people have for the city, then the OP probably has a point that Cleveland just feels less relevant. We're smaller, and we have a small town mayor - which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does validate the OP's overall point.

[Cali1976]

I was at tower city when it opened (and had a fendi, gucci, and some other never-seen-in-Cleveland stores), ate at Sammy's and sans Souci downtown as a teenager with my parents, had friends at st ignatius when Ohio city was starting to develop, been to west side market hundreds of times, severance center, the art museum hundreds of times, saw the rock and roll hall of fame when it opened, and countless other *****. I also visited the warehouse district on recent trips, ate at Lolita (I think that's what it's called), a random ass thai place in Ohio city, etc. all very pleasant experiences, but Cleveland has been developing in fits and starts for DECADES. What you're hyping up is nothing new.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by TBideon

There is a lot to argue with the OP's first post and I disagree with a good chunk of it. However, I will concede one point implicit to the topic, and that is the utter apathy and disinterest of the recent mayoral race is very concerning for a city trying to reclaim some kind of regional, if not national, relevance. Not only was the race a foregone conclusion but it just seemed meaningless overall. It was an 'eh' at best. Barely talked about, barely discussed outside of a few platitudes by local news, and the opponent appeared to stop running weeks before the election itself.

Until Mayor White's reign in the 90's, it seemed there were a number of strong candidates every race who really gave a $hit. They had unions and business and religious leaders and law firm support and debates and controversies and polarizing viewpoints -- all of which made for interesting and exciting races, and probably said something about the importance of the city too. Candidates seemed relevant and excited about the prospect of running for mayorship.

White came and we seemed satisfied with him. No one frankly remembers Campbell, and Jackson is basically the default mayor, the likable guy who doesn't seem to have a corrupt bone, yet also appears meek and won't take chances. I don't know what would happen in case of a local disaster, but I feel Jackson just wouldn't have the strong but calming presence of a Guiliani or Menino.

If a mayor reflects a city on some level, and the mayoral race reflects the momentum and excitement people have for the city, then the OP probably has a point that Cleveland just feels less relevant. We're smaller, and we have a small town mayor - which in itself is not necessarily a bad thing, but it does validate the OP's overall point.

I think you're vastly overrating a guy like Menino. People in Boston cared just as little as Cleveland did about their mayor. Just kept electing the same guy again and again and again for no good reason.

I also don't think Jackson is a bad mayor.

I still don't knw what you guys mean by "feel important" or "relevant."

Cleveland never was New York or Chicago, Boston, San Francisco, LA.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

I was at tower city when it opened (and had a fendi, gucci, and some other never-seen-in-Cleveland stores), ate at Sammy's and sans Souci downtown as a teenager with my parents, had friends at st ignatius when Ohio city was starting to develop, been to west side market hundreds of times, severance center, the art museum hundreds of times, saw the rock and roll hall of fame when it opened, and countless other *****. I also visited the warehouse district on recent trips, ate at Lolita (I think that's what it's called), a random ass thai place in Ohio city, etc. all very pleasant experiences, but Cleveland has been developing in fits and starts for DECADES. What you're hyping up is nothing new.

Another great story. Keep em coming.

By the way, I'm talking about Severance Hall, not Severance Town Center. Do you know the difference? You and your malls, geez.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by Cali1976

I've seen all the stuff you just mentioned. Crocker Park was to get lunch after being picked up at the airport. I'm sorry you're so offended by visiting on of the TWO decent shopping environments in the Greater Cleveland area, Little Italy is quaint for Cleveland, but enough to be some destination worth visiting on a short trip when virtually every town in California has an equivalent or larger town center with the same type of half assed coffee shops and red sauce restaurants? No. Same goes for every other tuning you mentioned. No, I spent time at home, cooking meals with my relatives, drinking at home, talking about stuff that is funny and important to sum and generally enjoyed quality time with family. I didn't need to see any of Cleveland's sights. I've done them before, and they're frankly not that special

Not worth visiting unique urban neighborhoods like Little Italy, University Circle, West 25th and Tremont, but worth visiting bland vanilla chains of overpriced, tasteless consumer products that you could get in any other big city? I think all this shows is that uncool people don't like Cleveland. I'm personally okay with this.

[Cali1976]

They're not unique neighborhoods if you live in a growing city. What you're excited about what would be called slums, ghettos, projects, abandonment in any other city. A chain restaurant is generally more pleasant to visit when you're surrounded by other inhabited establishments...not plywood covering windows