United dehubbing (Columbus, Cleveland, Cincinnati: cost of, to move, friendly)

[NC_MVP]

Originally Posted by jam1919

Good news for CLE from Delta Connection!!!


In addition, Delta will had daily service from Cleveland to Raleigh, NC. The flight will be operated by a CRJ700 aircraft by ExpressJet.

Thank God, I know it is selfish to only care about flights that personally affect you. But I am glad to see direct service from RDU to CLE.

[1watertiger]

in addition to yesterdays announcement. http://www.crainscleveland.com/artic...79/0/FRONTPAGE

[Clevelander17]

I think any airline that is willing to come in and offer an alternative on a route to one that United holds is going to see success. Clevelanders are fiercely loyal and if given the option they will choose against United.

[Republic of Michigan]

As an outsider who lived in Cleveland, there was one thing that really bothered me...it was Burke Airport on the most prime real estate. Cleveland is not my city to really make a comment, but if you were to ask me, I think people should be more concerned with that airport than United dehbubbing Cleveland. I wish that airport could be relocated somewhere else. (bulldoze East Cleveland entirely, and put the airport there...it would be close to Uptown.) I think that Cleveland could really benefit immensely if development was along the airport. That area is beautiful, but then there would be the problem of the highway there. I know that there was some recent news about developing the area just West of the airport. Just curious, has there been any desire by Clevelanders to relocate that airport? Or is it seen as strategically located for business travelers?

[diablo234]

Originally Posted by Republic of Michigan

As an outsider who lived in Cleveland, there was one thing that really bothered me...it was Burke Airport on the most prime real estate. Cleveland is not my city to really make a comment, but if you were to ask me, I think people should be more concerned with that airport than United dehbubbing Cleveland. I wish that airport could be relocated somewhere else. (bulldoze East Cleveland entirely, and put the airport there...it would be close to Uptown.) I think that Cleveland could really benefit immensely if development was along the airport. That area is beautiful, but then there would be the problem of the highway there. I know that there was some recent news about developing the area just West of the airport. Just curious, has there been any desire by Clevelanders to relocate that airport? Or is it seen as strategically located for business travelers?

Yeah if that airport was not there then Cleveland could take advantage of it's Lake Erie waterfront creating a waterfront similar to Chicago's or Milwaukee's. Maybe with the United Airlines hub closing this could provide the perfect opportunity to relocate those general aviation flights to CLE and close Burke Airport and redevelop that area.

[Urban Peasant]

Originally Posted by diablo234

Yeah if that airport was not there then Cleveland could take advantage of it's Lake Erie waterfront creating a waterfront similar to Chicago's or Milwaukee's. Maybe with the United Airlines hub closing this could provide the perfect opportunity to relocate those general aviation flights to CLE and close Burke Airport and redevelop that area.

Funny, now that you guys mentioned it, this reminds me of what is going on with Hong Kong, China's former Kai Tak International Airport:

AECOM - Asia - Kai Tak Development, Hong Kong

It would truly be wonderful if Burke Lakefront is purchased and redeveloped like this at least on a smaller scale. It would be very attractive as a spacious waterfront residential or mixed use development. The problem is, Cleveland still has a lot of other space to build on and current land supply is keeping up with or even exceeding demand (I mention land supply, not housing supply which is related but different). The Euclid Avenue Innovation Corridor still has a lot of space to fill and then you still have the part of Downtown west of Public Square and the Flats. What I fear is that even if the aviation flights relocate to Hopkins and Burke is shut down, you'd still be left with a barren unused piece of land unless there is demand and strong will to develop it.

[kallinan]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

Funny, now that you guys mentioned it, this reminds me of what is going on with Hong Kong, China's former Kai Tak International Airport:

AECOM - Asia - Kai Tak Development, Hong Kong

It would truly be wonderful if Burke Lakefront is purchased and redeveloped like this at least on a smaller scale. It would be very attractive as a spacious waterfront residential or mixed use development. The problem is, Cleveland still has a lot of other space to build on and current land supply is keeping up with or even exceeding demand (I mention land supply, not housing supply which is related but different). The Euclid Avenue Innovation Corridor still has a lot of space to fill and then you still have the part of Downtown west of Public Square and the Flats. What I fear is that even if the aviation flights relocate to Hopkins and Burke is shut down, you'd still be left with a barren unused piece of land unless there is demand and strong will to develop it.

If land supply is part of the issue, I wonder if part of Burke could be used for a public park?

[Cleverfield]

I agree it would be nice to develop that land, but I don't think it's going to happen in the near future, unless a serious organized movement goes into changing the current plans.

"City Councilman Joe Cimperman pressed Smith for answers on whether United's downsizing at Hopkins would allow for the closing of Burke Lakefront Airport so the land incorporated into Mayor Frank Jackson’s lakefront development plan. Cimperman suggested that the decision to preserve Burke might have been due to an agreement with United, and that arrangement now seems moot.

Smith said that the decision to keep Burke is driven by an agreement with the Federal Aviation Administration, not with United. The city recently has invested $17 million in improvements to Burke and has no plans to close the airport anytime soon, he said." Five things you should know about Cleveland City Council's hearing on United Airlines' job cuts | cleveland.com

[Cleveland_Collector]

Originally Posted by jam1919

This all started when you tried to "downplay" O&D travel and freaked out somebody said Charlotte and Salt Lake City are the only smaller cities that have done well as hubs due to geographic isolation.

What I specifically posted:

"Btw, Charlotte/SLC are minor destinations. Both are considerably smaller than NEO in both population and GRP. NEO has more F500/F1000 companies than both regions combined. To even suggest that either has significantly more origin/destination traffic than NEO is patently absurd (especially with SLC). The major difference between the 3 is the location and the parent airline. And, if O/D is so important, how does the Delta hub at SLC survive? I doubt that its geography has much to do with it. It probably has more to do with the competency of the company running it."

I wasn't "downplaying" anything. I was making a comparison based on a different facet of the argument. The other party was offering that SLC had more O/D than CLE which, of course, is complete BS as the region has about 1/4 the population and few major companies. CLT and CLE have comparable rates of O/D which negates the argument the other party was trying to make which, of course, means the other issues are more relevant to that facet of the argument. You see how this works?

You were first saying O&D is not that important and saying the competency of the airline is more important. Now you are all of a sudden the champion for O&D as the biggest reason a hub can exist.

If you could deduce past the end of your nose, you would see that CLT has become disadvantaged when it comes to O/D passengers, carrier competence (AA, like United, is the dominant carrier and emerging from bankruptcy -- see a connection?), market size, AND area saturation. It all plays a factor and CLT has much of it working against them.

[jam1919]

Originally Posted by Cleveland_Collector

I wasn't "downplaying" anything. I was making a comparison based on a different facet of the argument. The other party was offering that SLC had more O/D than CLE which, of course, is complete BS as the region has about 1/4 the population and few major companies. CLT and CLE have comparable rates of O/D which negates the argument the other party was trying to make which, of course, means the other issues are more relevant to that facet of the argument. You see how this works?

It isn't complete BS. It is FACT, like other posters have said. CLT has 26,664 O&D passengers per day (#27), SLC has 25,492 O&D passengers per day (#30) and CLE has 22,779 (#33).

Charlotte has 1.1 million O&D passengers to international destinations, Salt Lake City has 700,000 and Cleveland has 575,000.

You can visit the BTS website T100 table that aviation analysts utilize for the O&D stats. http://www.transtats.bts.gov/Fields.asp?Table_ID=310


I will agree to disagree with you regarding the status of the Charlotte hub for American. This is the Cleveland forum and the discussion should focus on the impact of United closing their hub in Cleveland. For now Charlotte is the 2nd largest hub for American and 4th largest in the country and I think it will stay the 2nd largest hub for American and not meet the same fate as Cleveland. By winter of 2014 Cleveland is going to have less than 130 departures per day. The focus of this thread should be on the impact for greater Cleveland, exciting additions in other cities, and more.. rather than caring about what happens in Charlotte.