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Hello All,
I first reached out to UrbanOhio more than 4 years ago about my desire to relocate back to Cleveland and I wanted to get the thoughts of the good folks on city-data as well as I'm an avid follower of this site too.
Well, I finally found a good job and will be moving back to the area in 4 weeks after trying to get back for over 4 years. Currently in Madison, WI and before that Chicago. My job is located in Oberlin and we will be renting there for the first year as my wife is 7 months pregnant and my parents live in Oberlin so they can help with a newborn. My job is about 40% travel so I will become intimately familiar with Hopkins.
So we have time before we buy. My previous focus was on Detroit-Shoreway, Ohio City and Tremont, but now that I've done some more research I've pushed a little westward and focusing on Edgewater,Lakewood, Kamm's Corner, Fairview Park and possibly Rocky River. I was just in town last weekend and drove through all 4 areas and also OC and Detroit-Shoreway. Actually, I was really impressed by how far Detroit-Shoreway has come along since I was last there almost 2 years ago.
My wife really liked the bungalows in Kamm's Corner. That was her favorite area. She didn't like Lakewood except for Clinton Blvd. I was pleasantly surprised by Fairview Park. We also want to buy less house so we're not house poor and my wife can be a stay at home if she so chooses, so I'd like to keep it in the 150K range which I fully understand limits us considerably in Fairview and Rocky River.
I'm very intrigued by Kamm's and it's family friendliness and relative stability. I understand the city lifted the residency requirement a few years ago and I assume that had some kind of impact. My mild concerns about Kamm's is would we fit in with the neighborhood demographics? We both come from middle to middle upper-class families, college educated, professional jobs, etc. A neighborhood with a good mix of white collar and blue collar professionals would be good. When we buy we plan on being in that place for the next 10-20 years at least. So good people of city data is Kamm's a good choice to put down roots long term? If not, why? Thanks
Detroit-shoreway is the best neighborhood in northeast Ohio. Get in now before it's too late. Five years from now property values will be thru the roof. My family has lived here for 2.5yrs and absolutely love it...Can't beat the lakefront access!
Congrats on returning to Cleveland, and agree that Kamm's Corner to be a rather stable area. Quaint houses and nearby parks. One thing to consider if you do intend to stay in the area long term, if your prospective child attends (all four years and graduates from) Oberlin High-School. They could, if accepted--attend the College tuition free.
I recently video-toured a great house in the 17400 block of Bradgate; I think asking price is around $129k. Gotta wonder why it so inexpensive. On the other hand, if hundreds or thousands of families like yours moved into the area, things would get much better there. Not that it's a ghetto but it's not a white collar haven. Decent places to eat in Kamms Corners; places for professionals to hang out, not so great.
If you want a Bungalow, Fairview Park should be very doable at $150K (currently around 30 houses listed under $150K in FP). But if you like Kamm's better, that's your choice.
Kamm's is okay and would be a fine place to raise a family, you just need to factor in the cost of private schooling for the kids, because Cleveland schools are not very good, even elementary school, when compared to the other cities you listed. I know plenty of white collar and blue collar types that have raised families in West Park and sent their kids to Catholic Schools all the way through high school. They love the area and it's affordability and family friendliness.
There isn't much in Lakewood under $150K on a street like Clifton. Probably a couple, but they will be on the far eastern end or in bad shape. I did see a pretty big house on Lake Ave (11860 Lake Ave) in Lakewood with a decent yard for under $115K, but it's basically surrounded by apartments on 3 sides and the taxes look to be based on it being a $250K house. Still a great deal though.
You may want to look into Land Bank or HomePath properties in Kamm's, Fairview or Lakewood. Can get a 203(k) loan and roll rehab costs into the mortgage. They have a "first look" window on Homeath for a couple weeks where only owner occupant buyers can bid before they open up the bidding to investors. Probably could even buy something like that while you are still renting in Oberlin and have the rehabbing done while you are not living there.
I recently video-toured a great house in the 17400 block of Bradgate; I think asking price is around $129k. Gotta wonder why it so inexpensive. On the other hand, if hundreds or thousands of families like yours moved into the area, things would get much better there. Not that it's a ghetto but it's not a white collar haven. Decent places to eat in Kamms Corners; places for professionals to hang out, not so great.
Ha, I looked at the same one on Bradgate. I was thinking the same thing.
I would assume folks that live in Kamm's not only frequent their local places but I would imagine head up to Lakewood and over to RR quite a bit?
The more I've been thinking about it, Detroit-Shoreway is a very strong contender as well. I think that area 5-10 years from now will really be thriving and I want my child to have a good urban expereince growing up.
If you want a Bungalow, Fairview Park should be very doable at $150K (currently around 30 houses listed under $150K in FP). But if you like Kamm's better, that's your choice.
Kamm's is okay and would be a fine place to raise a family, you just need to factor in the cost of private schooling for the kids, because Cleveland schools are not very good, even elementary school, when compared to the other cities you listed. I know plenty of white collar and blue collar types that have raised families in West Park and sent their kids to Catholic Schools all the way through high school. They love the area and it's affordability and family friendliness.
There isn't much in Lakewood under $150K on a street like Clifton. Probably a couple, but they will be on the far eastern end or in bad shape. I did see a pretty big house on Lake Ave (11860 Lake Ave) in Lakewood with a decent yard for under $115K, but it's basically surrounded by apartments on 3 sides and the taxes look to be based on it being a $250K house. Still a great deal though.
You may want to look into Land Bank or HomePath properties in Kamm's, Fairview or Lakewood. Can get a 203(k) loan and roll rehab costs into the mortgage. They have a "first look" window on Homeath for a couple weeks where only owner occupant buyers can bid before they open up the bidding to investors. Probably could even buy something like that while you are still renting in Oberlin and have the rehabbing done while you are not living there.
EC thank you so much for chiming in. I've always found you to be one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the assessing the real estate market health of the various neighborhoods. Your thoughts on DS vs the other areas I've mentioned. I've noticed the sale prcies really trending up north of Bridge from W. 52-65. And thatnks for the heads up on the 203K loan. I had never heard of it.
EC thank you so much for chiming in. I've always found you to be one of the more knowledgeable posters when it comes to the assessing the real estate market health of the various neighborhoods. Your thoughts on DS vs the other areas I've mentioned. I've noticed the sale prcies really trending up north of Bridge from W. 52-65. And thatnks for the heads up on the 203K loan. I had never heard of it.
I actually had written up a whole paragraph on Detroit-Shoreway in my previous reply and deleted it after I re-read your post because I thought you were steering away from it.
Anyway, Detroit- Shoreway is hot now of course and sellers price accordingly. The best parts are hard to find houses in at a good deal, especially the Italian enclave around Our Lady of Mt. Caramel Church. Even though it's not the best housing stock, it's the best location, in my opinion (closest to Edgewater) and the houses there just don't seem to hit the market, seemingly staying in the same families. Looking now, I only see 3 listed north of Detroit and 2 are grossly overpriced for what shape they are in. The other is on W.76th and also needs work but it's not priced as high (~$68,000). The area is fun and has some great houses, but it is close to some undesirable areas, that unfortunately, I don't think will be recovering any time fast (Madison and south between W. 65th and W.106th as well as the wedge between Lake, Detroit, W Blvd and Desmond).
The W. 65th to W. 52nd area around Bridge has some homes with nice architecture and great potential. I really love St. Stephens church on W. 54th just south of Bridge. I can imagine it was a great place to grow up back in it's heyday. However, in that area there are also some, to put it nicely, very ordinary small houses and duplexes that I imagine few people will ever want to dump money into fixing up. The area will have to be almost fully rehabbed before those houses end up fixed or torn down for new builds. In those fringe areas, that could take awhile, as in a couple decades. Just look at Tremont. Its been at least 20 years now and similar housing types (small or duplexes) just south of Tremont off Clark still aren't getting the residual rehabbing yet like the nicer parts of Tremont to the North.
When you get into the low W. 50's around Bridge...I'm a little wary about that. It's kinda no man's land between the happening spots of Ohio City and Detroit-Shoreway and while there may be some very nice houses on a particular street, there are also going to be shacks/duplexes with undesirables living there that aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Those will be your neighbors either behind or around the corner, whatever. Its a speculative choice if you go to that area, IMO. You could end up waiting for it to pay off for over 20 years. You really have to chose the street and house wisely. To me, right now, that's a lot less family friendly of an area than Kamm's or one of the suburbs like Lakewood or Fairview in your price range.
Me personally, if I was looking in Detroit-Shoreay, I'd look on Clinton and Franklin between W. 74th and W. 58th or or North of Detroit Just avoid these clowns (go to street view) ... https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1329+...AA&safe=strict
One final thing, I'm a bit surprised your wife didn't like Lakewood, yet likes Detroit-Shoreway. I'd consider them very similar housing stock-wise, with Lakewood being a lot more family friendly/walkable. Maybe you were looking around in the wrong part of Lakewood. So many awesome family/community events going on in Lakewood in the warmer months. Not a lot in the $150K range on Clifton and North, but there sure is on other great streets, you just have to know which ones (e.g. 1518 Wayne is $125,000 and it's a great family street with the Beck Center at the corner)
I actually had written up a whole paragraph on Detroit-Shoreway in my previous reply and deleted it after I re-read your post because I thought you were steering away from it.
Anyway, Detroit- Shoreway is hot now of course and sellers price accordingly. The best parts are hard to find houses in at a good deal, especially the Italian enclave around Our Lady of Mt. Caramel Church. Even though it's not the best housing stock, it's the best location, in my opinion (closest to Edgewater) and the houses there just don't seem to hit the market, seemingly staying in the same families. Looking now, I only see 3 listed north of Detroit and 2 are grossly overpriced for what shape they are in. The other is on W.76th and also needs work but it's not priced as high (~$68,000). The area is fun and has some great houses, but it is close to some undesirable areas, that unfortunately, I don't think will be recovering any time fast (Madison and south between W. 65th and W.106th as well as the wedge between Lake, Detroit, W Blvd and Desmond).
The W. 65th to W. 52nd area around Bridge has some homes with nice architecture and great potential. I really love St. Stephens church on W. 54th just south of Bridge. I can imagine it was a great place to grow up back in it's heyday. However, in that area there are also some, to put it nicely, very ordinary small houses and duplexes that I imagine few people will ever want to dump money into fixing up. The area will have to be almost fully rehabbed before those houses end up fixed or torn down for new builds. In those fringe areas, that could take awhile, as in a couple decades. Just look at Tremont. Its been at least 20 years now and similar housing types (small or duplexes) just south of Tremont off Clark still aren't getting the residual rehabbing yet like the nicer parts of Tremont to the North.
When you get into the low W. 50's around Bridge...I'm a little wary about that. It's kinda no man's land between the happening spots of Ohio City and Detroit-Shoreway and while there may be some very nice houses on a particular street, there are also going to be shacks/duplexes with undesirables living there that aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Those will be your neighbors either behind or around the corner, whatever. Its a speculative choice if you go to that area, IMO. You could end up waiting for it to pay off for over 20 years. You really have to chose the street and house wisely. To me, right now, that's a lot less family friendly of an area than Kamm's or one of the suburbs like Lakewood or Fairview in your price range.
Me personally, if I was looking in Detroit-Shoreay, I'd look on Clinton and Franklin between W. 74th and W. 58th or or North of Detroit Just avoid these clowns (go to street view) ... https://maps.google.com/maps?q=1329+...AA&safe=strict
One final thing, I'm a bit surprised your wife didn't like Lakewood, yet likes Detroit-Shoreway. I'd consider them very similar housing stock-wise, with Lakewood being a lot more family friendly/walkable. Maybe you were looking around in the wrong part of Lakewood. So many awesome family/community events going on in Lakewood in the warmer months. Not a lot in the $150K range on Clifton and North, but there sure is on other great streets, you just have to know which ones (e.g. 1518 Wayne is $125,000 and it's a great family street with the Beck Center at the corner)
She liked Lakewood the first time I took her through there about 4 years ago. She said it reminded her a little of Oak Park, IL which is where we lived for a time. I think it was just the particular side streets we went down. We didn't drive throughout too much of Lakewood this go around. At his point, DS is more on my radar than hers. I like Clinton as well. We're just going to have to hang out in the various 'hoods when we get there at the end of the month. PS: You're the second person who has recommended the area around MT Caramel Church. I google mapped it and did the street view and there are definitely some fixer uppers in the area, but we'd be taking the long view and the location is great. I looked at the 68K house too.
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