Cleveland once had 900k people in the city (Cleveland Heights, Warren: schools, living in)

[JR_C]

Originally Posted by L2DB

I suppose I look at it from an even baser level. Other than size (perhaps) is there likely a significant difference between the living room of a house on the Ohio City street and the living room of a house on the Solon street? Maybe one has a mantle/fireplace or crown molding or hardwood floors, but how important is that? Both are going to have couches and TV's somewhere and maybe a bookshelf or whatever. If you have kids, both will likely have **** strewn all over the place. I can watch Dinosaur Train or Clifford on the couch with my kids in both places, color with them on the floor in both places, etc.

Our house is somewhere in the middle of 1920's character and 1980's+ homogenity, but it's very very rare that I consciously acknowledge (let alone appreciate) the built-in in our dining room or lament the fact that the exterior of our house is an imprint of the house next door. But I appreciate on a regular basis that our house has a nicely finished basement playroom and that there's an excellent playground and almost-water-park-quality pool within biking distance.

Would it be nice if there was a gastropub and independently owned coffee shop within walking distance (getting to environment and not just architecture)? Sure. But we may eat at the gastropub once every other week and I might get coffee (my wife doesn't drink it) once a week. Would I trade for that if it meant giving up my finished basement which my kids play in every day? Of course not, and it's not even close.

But if I didn't have kids and didn't need a finished basement and would eat out at the gastropub and get coffee more often because I was single... I'd trade it and not think twice.

Again, everyone is different, with different priorities in their life. Sure, the city living room and the suburban living room have the same functions. But, location makes a difference for me because: I can see out of the windows, I walk out of the front door everyday on my way to work, I come home from work and look at the front of my house everyday, I walk around the neighborhood, etc.. If I do have a family someday, maybe I'll compromise, and move to a streetcar suburb that has better schools? But I would not be content to live in a house built after 1940, or so. (unless was a truly great modern house; maybe something like this, overlooking Lake Erie: First Crescent House (Camps Bay, South Africa) « Airows)

Again, it's all about what's right for each individual situation and why
a "everyone should live in X" approach to where to live threads
is wrong.

IMO, this wasn't one of those threads.

[L2DB]

Originally Posted by JR_C

IMO, this wasn't one of those threads.

It wasn't, but there are those (not saying you) that are pro-city or pro-suburb being all non-gray ITT.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by JR_C

As a design professional, I very much disagree; the environment in which I live is very important to me. But, everyone is different, and the design quality of one's environment is just one of a number of factors that are prioritized when choosing where to live. There are probably a lot of people who prefer the look of this Ohio City street: https://www.google.com/maps/@41.4851...yijY9rMvEw!2e0
to this street in Solon: https://www.google.com/maps/place/So...279ba4afe83ee2
but choose to live in the suburban location for other reasons.

You chose a terrible street in Solon. Those houses were built in the 1950's maybe into the 1970's. There aren't that many of those houses. Solon has more of the bigger newer houses that were built in the late 1980's, the 1990's and are still being built.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

There aren't too many buildings that are renovated by the city, but actually if they do these projects, most in run-down neighborhoods like Hough, Glenville, South Broadway, Miles-Lee, not the more well-off areas.

University Circle isn't run down. Yet they did projects there. The area northeast of Rockefeller Park isn't run down, yet they did a huge historic apartment row renovations.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by reretarff

University Circle isn't run down. Yet they did projects there. The area northeast of Rockefeller Park isn't run down, yet they did a huge historic apartment row renovations.

The area Northeast of Rockefeller Park isn't rundown? Uh, you realize that's Glenville right? Besides the houses on East Blvd. (and not all of them), that area is in terrible shape. Where did you see those signs in University Circle? The only place I've seen them is on that big apartment building at Wade Park and East Blvd., which is in, or right on the border of one of the worst neighborhoods of Cleveland.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by JR_C

Again, everyone is different, with different priorities in their life. Sure, the city living room and the suburban living room have the same functions.

Me, I regard my entire neighborhood as my "living room". There are coffee shops, all types of eateries, great nightlife, varied theater options, and parks and recreation abound. I can be out and about all the time and never run out of things to do.

Of course, I'm single. If I had a family and kids, I'd likely have different priorities. I love dense urban living and all that it offers, but I can readily see why some people would prefer the suburbs.

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

The area Northeast of Rockefeller Park isn't rundown? Uh, you realize that's Glenville right? Besides the houses on East Blvd. (and not all of them), that area is in terrible shape. Where did you see those signs in University Circle? The only place I've seen them is on that big apartment building at Wade Park and East Blvd., which is in, or right on the border of one of the worst neighborhoods of Cleveland.

The good neighborhoods northeast of Rockefeller Park (Near University Circle) is an amazing neighborhood. There are brick roads and huge historic mansions there. I wouldn't mind living there.

University Circle is fine and there is no area bordering it that is unsafe.

There have also been projects in Asiatown and downtown. Those areas are safe.

[Cleverfield]

Originally Posted by reretarff

The good neighborhoods northeast of Rockefeller Park (Near University Circle) is an amazing neighborhood. There are brick roads and huge historic mansions there. I wouldn't mind living there.

University Circle is fine and there is no area bordering it that is unsafe.

There have also been projects in Asiatown and downtown. Those areas are safe.

You do realize that University Circle is bordered by East Cleveland, Glenville, Fairfax, Hough, and Buckeye-Woodland, all of which are some of the worst neighborhoods in Cleveland, and you've been touting them as such. There are also really no neighborhoods north of Wade Park Rd. that are good. It really baffles me that in one breath you claim that all of Cleveland is run down and crumbling, which is incorrect, and in the next breath you say that the neighborhoods that really are run down and crumbling are perfectly fine, which is also wrong. You are just one big bundle of contradictions, which astoundingly, despite being complete polar opposites, are all wrong.

*Hint* searching a random street on Google Street Maps does not tell you everything you need to know about a neighborhood *Hint*

[reretarff]

Originally Posted by Cleverfield

You do realize that University Circle is bordered by East Cleveland, Glenville, Fairfax, Hough, and Buckeye-Woodland, all of which are some of the worst neighborhoods in Cleveland, and you've been touting them as such. There are also really no neighborhoods north of Wade Park Rd. that are good. It really baffles me that in one breath you claim that all of Cleveland is run down and crumbling, which is incorrect, and in the next breath you say that the neighborhoods that really are run down and crumbling are perfectly fine, which is also wrong. You are just one big bundle of contradictions, which astoundingly, despite being complete polar opposites, are all wrong.

*Hint* searching a random street on Google Street Maps does not tell you everything you need to know about a neighborhood *Hint*

You are naive. There are areas in those neighborhoods that are great. In East Cleveland it's Forest Hills. In Glenville it's the southern part bordering University Circle. In Fairfax it's the area along Euclid Avenue and the area that borders University Circle (Cleveland Clinic is in it). In Hough it's the area along Euclid Avenue and the area around Rockefeller Park and the areas bordering University Circle. I think you mean Buckeye-Shaker, and the safe areas there are really the whole area except for the extreme southern and extreme western areas along the borders. (Shaker Square is in Buckeye-Shaker).

Most of those neighborhoods are in general pretty bad, but you clearly said that they are "Some of the worst neighborhoods in Cleveland", and that sounds like you judged the neighborhoods as a whole, not knowing what really goes on there.

[Cleverfield]

Please, reretarff, do me a favor and do 3 things. 1) drive through or walk through these areas, and I'm talking about the side streets, not Shaker Square, Cedar, or Fairhill, and don't just go on Google Street View 2) check the property values in these places; most of the houses in the neighborhoods you're referring to are listed at less than $30,000, many less than $20,000. Considering these houses are not tiny shacks, that tells you something about the neighborhoods. 3) look at a map, the Forest Hills section of East Cleveland does not border University Circle. The parts of EC that do border UC are terrible.

I'm not going to spend my time debunking every one of your unfounded claims. I am in these neighborhoods every day, I know the East Side probably better than anyone else on this site. I know it well enough that I can take you from virtually any point to any other point without a map. I don't think you are in a place to call me naive when the main basis of your "knowledge" is Google Maps and drives along the main streets to Downtown.