Cleveland: the "mini-Chicago" (Columbus, Cincinnati: homes, to live, costs)

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Chicago from a fiscal standpoint, especially considering its unfunded pension liabilities, is much more similar to Detroit than to Cleveland. Cleveland uses state pension systems that, compared to those in Illinois, are well funded.

These pension liabilities will cause great pain in Chicago and Illinois at some point.

The cost of living in Cleveland also is fraction of that in Chicago.

Finally, an hour or two outside of Cleveland are great rural areas, including the largest Amish community in the world amid the rolling Allegheny foothills.

The topography is very different. Clevelanders can bike to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which has two downhill skiing areas, and typically are within minutes of other great nature preserves. Outdoor enthusiasts that also desire an urban experience would find Cleveland a dreamland and Chicago relatively very deficient.

Cedar Point is one hour west of Cleveland and the Lake Erie islands (Put-in-Bay) can be reached within two hours, inclusive of the ferry ride.

And, this is very important, Chicago has nothing that compares to the Cleveland Metropark system, which is complemented by superb local park systems in surrounding counties. The population density of Greater Cleveland is much less than that of Chicago.

The lifestyle of many Clevelanders is vastly different than that of most Chicagoans, which is why it perhaps is most ridiculous to label Cleveland as a mini-Chicago.

What Chicago and Cleveland share are great cultural institutions and a robust pro sports environment, in addition to being lakefront cities.

You are in the mountains 2 hours east of Cleveland (I-80) and the ride prior to the mountains is rolling countryside and valleys. Eastern Ohio is hilly in general, except along Lake Erie, down into Appalachia.

[WRnative]

Many Clevelanders don't even know about Gildersleeve Mountain!

Gildersleeve Mountain - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Larry Siegel]

Heck, many Clevelanders don't know about the Portage Escarpment, even if they live on it.

Bluestone Heights

[TheMahValley]

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

Please use facts if you want to even attempt bogus arguments. The unemployment rates for Cleveland AND Chicago as of September 2014 are 6.1%. Get a grip. Please tell me how Cleveland's downtown is "booming" compared to Chicago. You clearly have no pulse on the current state of Chicago and are one of those "regurgitate what I heard on a news segment 9 months ago" people. I don't have time to sit here and list to you all of the development going on in Chicago right now, but feel free to search for yourself. I really don't care if people want to call Cleveland a mini-Chicago. I really don't see it, but whatever. I have nothing against Cleveland, btw, and only wish the city the best. A stronger fellow Midwestern city is only good for the region and nation as a whole. I guess a gesture of well-being to more than one city is too complex for many city-data members to comprehend.

Oh look, another Pittsburgh forumer telling Clevelanders what Cleveland is. Me get a grip? I don't think so. Bogus arguments? This wasn't even an argument until you turned it into one. So be it, let it continue.

I never once said Chicago's downtown wasn't booming. You really are just making stuff up because you're mad. I was mentioning Cleveland's in reference to Cleveland. But with your little inane air quotes are going to act like you know what is actually happening in Cleveland? You clearly have no idea what is happening in Cleveland. Let me guess, you're like all the other Pittsburgh posters on here (don't care if you live in Chicago or wherever now) and read other development forums and think you know Cleveland to a tee?

Don't care what developments are going on in Chicago. This is not the Chicago forum. I studied at Depaul's Urban Sustainable Development Program for a while and will quickly call Chicago out to its boosters on here that it is CERTAINLY NOT PERFECT, especially when trying to boost it in the Cleveland forum. I responded to why I don't think Cleveland is a mini Chicago, and I think it is unfair to call Cleveland a mini Chicago when it isn't.

Please continue, because I love to respond to people looking to start an argument when all you do is state your opinion. You took this to another level, and I would love to finish it.

[TheMahValley]

Originally Posted by ForYourLungsOnly

Again, please give me hard facts. What is the murder rate per capita of Chicago compared to Cleveland? Can you tell me? Tell me how it "surpasses Detroit in many bad categories"; with facts please.

Chicago's Murder Rate Drops, Now Three Times Lower Than Detroit's: FBI - Chicago - DNAinfo.com Chicago

I am not denying that Chicago has it's problems. It certainly does, as does Cleveland. I just cannot take your argument, or anybody's for that matter, seriously without some facts.

Wait. You tell people to look up facts, but you can't look them up yourself? Did you just come in here to start stuff? I think you did. The way this thread was quiet for a while until you came in here to start your rant.

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Chicago from a fiscal standpoint, especially considering its unfunded pension liabilities, is much more similar to Detroit than to Cleveland. Cleveland uses state pension systems that, compared to those in Illinois, are well funded.

These pension liabilities will cause great pain in Chicago and Illinois at some point.

The cost of living in Cleveland also is fraction of that in Chicago.

Finally, an hour or two outside of Cleveland are great rural areas, including the largest Amish community in the world amid the rolling Allegheny foothills.

The topography is very different. Clevelanders can bike to the Cuyahoga Valley National Park, which has two downhill skiing areas, and typically are within minutes of other great nature preserves. Outdoor enthusiasts that also desire an urban experience would find Cleveland a dreamland and Chicago relatively very deficient.

Cedar Point is one hour west of Cleveland and the Lake Erie islands (Put-in-Bay) can be reached within two hours, inclusive of the ferry ride.

And, this is very important, Chicago has nothing that compares to the Cleveland Metropark system, which is complemented by superb local park systems in surrounding counties. The population density of Greater Cleveland is much less than that of Chicago.

The lifestyle of many Clevelanders is vastly different than that of most Chicagoans, which is why it perhaps is most ridiculous to label Cleveland as a mini-Chicago.

What Chicago and Cleveland share are great cultural institutions and a robust pro sports environment, in addition to being lakefront cities.

What a great post. The last sentence is why I started this thread to begin with btw.

[Urban Peasant]

I just came back from a trip to Chicago two weeks ago (third ever trip into the Midwest and beautiful city by the way! ). Cleveland and Chicago do have some similarities but saying that one is the miniature version of the other is like saying Boston or Philadelphia is a mini-New York City, i.e. not really. It doesn't have to be however. Hartford, CT and Providence, RI both have similarities to Boston but should not be considered complete mini-Bostons. Someone once mentioned Buffalo, NY and Erie, PA to be similar to Cleveland but I wouldn't call them complete mini-Clevelands either. Every city is somehow unique in its own way and so the only way to compare one city as a smaller version of another is in a select field such as the arts, architecture, sports teams, parks, or shopping.

[andrew61]

Next up: "Is Sandusky the mini-Cleveland?"

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by Urban Peasant

I just came back from a trip to Chicago two weeks ago (third ever trip into the Midwest and beautiful city by the way! ). Cleveland and Chicago do have some similarities but saying that one is the miniature version of the other is like saying Boston or Philadelphia is a mini-New York City, i.e. not really. It doesn't have to be however. Hartford, CT and Providence, RI both have similarities to Boston but should not be considered complete mini-Bostons. Someone once mentioned Buffalo, NY and Erie, PA to be similar to Cleveland but I wouldn't call them complete mini-Clevelands either. Every city is somehow unique in its own way and so the only way to compare one city as a smaller version of another is in a select field such as the arts, architecture, sports teams, parks, or shopping.

Agreed.

Personally, I don't really see any of the comparissons that are often thrown around. All American cities are similar to each other to a degree. I just don't see the point of assining the label mini to anyone.

[Ball freak]

Cleveland in terms of size is more comparable to cities like Milwaukee, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, and St. Louis. As far as a mini Chicago I guess I could see that being an Upper Midwest city on the Great Lakes. I would place Cleveland with Detroit and Buffalo before Chicago though.