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Agreed. Having been able to spend a decent amount of time in Cleveland since last June, especially with all the development going on, one realizes that Cleveland does offer as much as the ''cooler'' cities but without the attitude. The Cleveland metro area is transforming, increasingly so lately, into a more diversified economy.
I would say that if you think Cleveland offers more than the cooler cities, then you obviously have never lived on the east coast! When you walk down the street in New York you can just feel the energy! Unlike anything you feel anywhere else! Talk about history, Philly has more significant history that dates back before Cleveland was even founded, than in all of Cleveland's history. Ever been to a diner or Italian restaurant in Jersey? You don't have to worry about eating in a bad restaurant out there, because you really have to search hard to find one. Cheap and cheerful doesn't cut it on the east coast. Ever been to a boardwalk at the Jersey shore on a Friday night. Been to the fireworks in Philly on the 4th? Have a cheesesteak on the south side of Philly? How bout the street performers, shops and cafe's at Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The no-name fish market restaurant.
If you think Cleveland even comes close to those places, Well, then you've never spent time and enjoyed any of them. Hey, I love Cleveland, but it isn't a fair comparison to say it comes close to other "cool" cities.
BTW, the reason real estate values are so high on the east coast has little to do with land controls and use. It is, because their economies will support those prices. They are highly sought after and more desirable places to live. The reason real estate prices in Ohio are among the lowest in the nation: A bad economy, and most people don't want to live here!
Current east coaster, love Boston , and I disagree with the above. People have preferences and that's fine, but I think it's pretty objective that Boston and Cleveland have basically the same offerings. The stuff that Boston has that cle doesn't are things that I got over like a month after I moved (vague historical places from 350 years ago, pretentious universities, and a full subway system that is slower than a brisk walking pace). I've never lived in philly, but having been, I don't see what it offers either that is so obviously superior. The only thing to me that the east coast has done a better job than the Great Lakes is keeping me employed.
And please, the lame touristy Faneuil hall is nothing to brag about. I personally can't stand it. Way cooler things in Boston than that. Way cooler things in Cleveland than that. Look, you have a sentimental attachment to philly, cool. You do know they make cheese steaks everywhere now, right? And cheese steaks aren't even really that inventive in the first place....
And good one about selling my house in Boston. I don't think you can get a house anywhere in the city for much under a million these days. Parking places have gone for 400,000.
I would say that if you think Cleveland offers more than the cooler cities, then you obviously have never lived on the east coast! When you walk down the street in New York you can just feel the energy! Unlike anything you feel anywhere else! Talk about history, Philly has more significant history that dates back before Cleveland was even founded, than in all of Cleveland's history. Ever been to a diner or Italian restaurant in Jersey? You don't have to worry about eating in a bad restaurant out there, because you really have to search hard to find one. Cheap and cheerful doesn't cut it on the east coast. Ever been to a boardwalk at the Jersey shore on a Friday night. Been to the fireworks in Philly on the 4th? Have a cheesesteak on the south side of Philly? How bout the street performers, shops and cafe's at Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The no-name fish market restaurant.
If you think Cleveland even comes close to those places, Well, then you've never spent time and enjoyed any of them. Hey, I love Cleveland, but it isn't a fair comparison to say it comes close to other "cool" cities.
BTW, the reason real estate values are so high on the east coast has little to do with land controls and use. It is, because their economies will support those prices. They are highly sought after and more desirable places to live. The reason real estate prices in Ohio are among the lowest in the nation: A bad economy, and most people don't want to live here!
Been there, done all that you mentioned. I live in Philly and, prior to that, New York.
Restricted land-use on the east coast does have an effect on the cost of housing, sorry but it has more than a little to do with it. Also, Philly prior to say, 2000, was cratering just like Cleveland, Detroit and other run-down urban cities. Fortunately, Philly is turning itself around and has just started increasing its population, mostly in Center City as its growth is sending people into South Philly especially. So Philly has become increasingly desirable for some, but many prefer the suburbs. Also, the Philly metro area is not seeing huge population gains either.
I really like living in Center City Philly; with what's going in downtown Cleveland, I think I would like living there as well.
Regarding employment opportunities, I'm in higher education (teaching/administration), so it's a bit different for me. I may not be completely informed as I am still working through the program, but it seems like compared to many places Florida and Sun Belt universities in general are short staffed. That's why you see hundreds of applications down here for a part time academic advisor position. Asheville may not have a super diverse economy, but UNC Asheville, and Western Carolina, while small, probably have less people applying, and all it takes for me is one job. Cleveland in general seems to beat Orlando/Florida on the education economy, due to having schools like Case Western Reserve and Oberlin that are world class institutions.
Also one more thing: Hey now. Philadelphia is a nice city, and I see that maybe you were just trying to make a point, but I don't think there is all that much that Philly offers that Cleveland doesn't. Sure, Philly's history is impressive, I myself do want to take a trip to see Valley Forge and Independence Hall in greater detail at some point, but one could easily make a case that Cleveland's museum/cultural scene is as good as anywhere, with the combination of quality, access and price at hand. I'll take the three headed monster of Severance Hall, Cleveland Museum of Art and PlayhouseSquare, and find it difficult to imagine that someone could offer me a better deal than that. Also, as far as nature, very different comparison, but many would probably say CVNP/Cleveland Metroparks/Put in Bay could easily hang tough with Jersey Shore, albeit very different things. Comparing Put in Bay and Jersey Shore are probably quite difficult though. I know what I like about that is taking a golf cart and bike around the island and the feeling of quaintness, where as I am sure Atlantic City has an entire different feel. Different preferences, I suppose.
Also Faneuil Hall is great, but the fact that the main part of it is turned into a mall/tourist trap is just upsetting, at least IMO.
Regarding employment opportunities, I'm in higher education (teaching/administration), so it's a bit different for me. I may not be completely informed as I am still working through the program, but it seems like compared to many places Florida and Sun Belt universities in general are short staffed. That's why you see hundreds of applications down here for a part time academic advisor position. Asheville may not have a super diverse economy, but UNC Asheville, and Western Carolina, while small, probably have less people applying, and all it takes for me is one job. Cleveland in general seems to beat Orlando/Florida on the education economy, due to having schools like Case Western Reserve and Oberlin that are world class institutions.
Also one more thing: Hey now. Philadelphia is a nice city, and I see that maybe you were just trying to make a point, but I don't think there is all that much that Philly offers that Cleveland doesn't. Sure, Philly's history is impressive, I myself do want to take a trip to see Valley Forge and Independence Hall in greater detail at some point, but one could easily make a case that Cleveland's museum/cultural scene is as good as anywhere, with the combination of quality, access and price at hand. I'll take the three headed monster of Severance Hall, Cleveland Museum of Art and PlayhouseSquare, and find it difficult to imagine that someone could offer me a better deal than that. Also, as far as nature, very different comparison, but many would probably say CVNP/Cleveland Metroparks/Put in Bay could easily hang tough with Jersey Shore, albeit very different things. Comparing Put in Bay and Jersey Shore are probably quite difficult though. I know what I like about that is taking a golf cart and bike around the island and the feeling of quaintness, where as I am sure Atlantic City has an entire different feel. Different preferences, I suppose.
Also Faneuil Hall is great, but the fact that the main part of it is turned into a mall/tourist trap is just upsetting, at least IMO.
You should visit Philly, it's a great city. I promote Philly visits to people all the time; still seems a bit off the radar for being such a large, important and fun place. That's changing for the better though. Philly's being perceived as more fun, safe and cultural as opposed to the dull, dangerous and Rocky-guido stereotypes.
I would say that if you think Cleveland offers more than the cooler cities, then you obviously have never lived on the east coast! When you walk down the street in New York you can just feel the energy! Unlike anything you feel anywhere else! Talk about history, Philly has more significant history that dates back before Cleveland was even founded, than in all of Cleveland's history. Ever been to a diner or Italian restaurant in Jersey? You don't have to worry about eating in a bad restaurant out there, because you really have to search hard to find one. Cheap and cheerful doesn't cut it on the east coast. Ever been to a boardwalk at the Jersey shore on a Friday night. Been to the fireworks in Philly on the 4th? Have a cheesesteak on the south side of Philly? How bout the street performers, shops and cafe's at Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The no-name fish market restaurant.
If you think Cleveland even comes close to those places, Well, then you've never spent time and enjoyed any of them. Hey, I love Cleveland, but it isn't a fair comparison to say it comes close to other "cool" cities.
BTW, the reason real estate values are so high on the east coast has little to do with land controls and use. It is, because their economies will support those prices. They are highly sought after and more desirable places to live. The reason real estate prices in Ohio are among the lowest in the nation: A bad economy, and most people don't want to live here!
Btw, I didn't state that Cleveland offers ''more than the cooler cities.'' Credentials check alert: you're not from or can be really familiar with Philly if you use ''south side of Philly'' to describe South Philly. I have never heard of the ''south side of Philly''. No one in Philly has ever said the ''south side of Philly''.
No one but you was ''talking'' about history either; of course the east coast offers the history angle since it's where it all started. So, Cleveland has a U.S. President buried within its city limits, unlike Boston or Philly; there ya go.
I would say that if you think Cleveland offers more than the cooler cities, then you obviously have never lived on the east coast! When you walk down the street in New York you can just feel the energy! Unlike anything you feel anywhere else! Talk about history, Philly has more significant history that dates back before Cleveland was even founded, than in all of Cleveland's history. Ever been to a diner or Italian restaurant in Jersey? You don't have to worry about eating in a bad restaurant out there, because you really have to search hard to find one. Cheap and cheerful doesn't cut it on the east coast. Ever been to a boardwalk at the Jersey shore on a Friday night. Been to the fireworks in Philly on the 4th? Have a cheesesteak on the south side of Philly? How bout the street performers, shops and cafe's at Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The no-name fish market restaurant.
If you think Cleveland even comes close to those places, Well, then you've never spent time and enjoyed any of them. Hey, I love Cleveland, but it isn't a fair comparison to say it comes close to other "cool" cities.
BTW, the reason real estate values are so high on the east coast has little to do with land controls and use. It is, because their economies will support those prices. They are highly sought after and more desirable places to live. The reason real estate prices in Ohio are among the lowest in the nation: A bad economy, and most people don't want to live here!
Btw, I didn't state that Cleveland offers ''more than the cooler cities.'' Credentials check alert: you're not from or can be really familiar with Philly if you use ''south side of Philly'' to describe South Philly. I have never heard of the ''south side of Philly''. No one in Philly has ever said the ''south side of Philly''.
You should visit Philly, it's a great city. I promote Philly visits to people all the time; still seems a bit off the radar for being such a large, important and fun place. That's changing for the better though. Philly's being perceived as more fun, safe and cultural as opposed to the dull, dangerous and Rocky-guido stereotypes.
Oh I'm sure it is and with how much I love travel it's on my to do list. Center City, Pat's/Geno's, UPenn, that awesome looking nature trail that leads up to the art museum, Reading Terminal. I could go on and on. But I just don't think 'way more' is accurate as he was saying, although it may have just been to prove a point. I could easily put Case, WSM, Towpath Trail/inventor's museum, CMA, etc. Up with that and they both certainly have unique things. I will certainly plan a trip though!
Credentials check alert: you're not from or can be really familiar with Philly if you use ''south side of Philly'' to describe South Philly. .
You are correct about the terminology. I didn't live in Philly, but just across the bridge in Jersey for 10 years. Did spend a lot of time in Philly though. I was there during the Rizzo, Green & Goode era. Also lived in Lancaster County and worked in Chester County for a couple.
Hey, I've said it numerous times; I love Cleveland. However, given a choice, which city has more to offer and where would I prefer to live: Clearly: the east coast; Philadelphia....................
Yeah guys, I agree. I love philly and Boston and dc and nyc. East coast is great. I also love Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Chicago and Cincinnati. I probably prefer the Great Lakes / rust belt a bit more because of the fewer expenses and generally a bit more friendly (not just in terms of people, but also to businesses and entrepreneurs and stuff like that, everyone on the coast has to have connections or money or both to get anything off the ground, although maybe less in a place like philly). I actually always thought of philly as the cle of the coast. Both great and off the radar. Still don't see the obvious superiority of philly though. Whatever.
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I would say that if you think Cleveland offers more than the cooler cities, then you obviously have never lived on the east coast! When you walk down the street in New York you can just feel the energy! Unlike anything you feel anywhere else! Talk about history, Philly has more significant history that dates back before Cleveland was even founded, than in all of Cleveland's history. Ever been to a diner or Italian restaurant in Jersey? You don't have to worry about eating in a bad restaurant out there, because you really have to search hard to find one. Cheap and cheerful doesn't cut it on the east coast. Ever been to a boardwalk at the Jersey shore on a Friday night. Been to the fireworks in Philly on the 4th? Have a cheesesteak on the south side of Philly? How bout the street performers, shops and cafe's at Boston's Faneuil Hall Marketplace. The no-name fish market restaurant. 
