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Old 07-29-2015, 08:59 PM
 
1,046 posts, read 1,527,613 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZnGuy View Post
it was consensus that it was a miserable past winter that went on for ever
Is this thread still going? Was NEO winter miserable as Boston? No but it was still a miserable experience in the eyes of many. The main take away for anyone not familiar with NEO winters is such:

#1. Cleveland winters are unfavorable by majority opinion.
#2. Since this majority opinion puts a negative picture on life in NEO during winter, NEO boosters will make every effort to down play this majority opinion. They will even go so far as to try and discredit the those who have lived in Cleveland and have experienced it first hand. No one is fooled.

Again, it took a friend of mine 6 hours to drive from Cleveland to Akron on Thanksgiving day because of NEO weather and the roads being so bad.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:46 AM
 
338 posts, read 556,898 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmodder View Post
Is this thread still going? Was NEO winter miserable as Boston? No but it was still a miserable experience in the eyes of many. The main take away for anyone not familiar with NEO winters is such:

#1. Cleveland winters are unfavorable by majority opinion.
#2. Since this majority opinion puts a negative picture on life in NEO during winter, NEO boosters will make every effort to down play this majority opinion. They will even go so far as to try and discredit the those who have lived in Cleveland and have experienced it first hand. No one is fooled.

Again, it took a friend of mine 6 hours to drive from Cleveland to Akron on Thanksgiving day because of NEO weather and the roads being so bad.
maxmodder is absolutely correct. Period. In general, NEO winters are cloudy, long and cold. The few, the proud, the penguins. Those who enjoy NEO winters may have a few penguin genes in them. That is the only way to explain it.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:53 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,046 posts, read 12,341,171 times
Reputation: 10370
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmodder View Post
Is this thread still going? Was NEO winter miserable as Boston? No but it was still a miserable experience in the eyes of many. The main take away for anyone not familiar with NEO winters is such:

#1. Cleveland winters are unfavorable by majority opinion.
#2. Since this majority opinion puts a negative picture on life in NEO during winter, NEO boosters will make every effort to down play this majority opinion. They will even go so far as to try and discredit the those who have lived in Cleveland and have experienced it first hand. No one is fooled.

Again, it took a friend of mine 6 hours to drive from Cleveland to Akron on Thanksgiving day because of NEO weather and the roads being so bad.
Boston had almost twice as much snow as you. And our streets are much narrower. Guess what? Boston is still here. You guys act like people from outside Cleveland could never understand what they're getting themselves into. Problem is, most people in the northern United States know exactly what gray skies and cold temps and snow are like. Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, buffalo, Minneapolis, Madison, Columbus, and everywhere in between already have similar weather. Sure, some places get more snow than others. Cleveland does not get the most. Ever. The entire states of Minnesota and Wisconsin and quite a bit of Michigan are consistently colder. We are literally talking about over 100 million people that experience the same general weather.

You guys think you are making revelations or something, but you're not. Weather is so banal.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:56 AM
 
338 posts, read 556,898 times
Reputation: 100
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Boston had almost twice as much snow as you. And our streets are much narrower. Guess what? Boston is still here. You guys act like people from outside Cleveland could never understand what they're getting themselves into. Problem is, most people in the northern United States know exactly what gray skies and cold temps and snow are like. Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, buffalo, Minneapolis, Madison, Columbus, and everywhere in between already have similar weather. Sure, some places get more snow than others. Cleveland does not get the most. Ever. The entire states of Minnesota and Wisconsin and quite a bit of Michigan are consistently colder. We are literally talking about over 100 million people that experience the same general weather.

You guys think you are making revelations or something, but you're not. Weather is so banal.
You live in Boston and that city is infinitely better than Cleveland. Comparing Cleveland to all cities you note above (except Buffalo and perhaps Detroit) is like comparing apples to oranges.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:01 AM
 
Location: cleveland
50 posts, read 62,851 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deskjockey View Post
You live in Boston and that city is infinitely better than Cleveland. Comparing Cleveland to all cities you note above (except Buffalo and perhaps Detroit) is like comparing apples to oranges.
Then why do you live in Cleveland?

You should leave and move in with maxmodder ... I think you two would make a cute couple.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:07 AM
 
1,046 posts, read 1,527,613 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjimmy24 View Post
Boston had almost twice as much snow as you. And our streets are much narrower. Guess what? Boston is still here. You guys act like people from outside Cleveland could never understand what they're getting themselves into. Problem is, most people in the northern United States know exactly what gray skies and cold temps and snow are like. Boston, New York, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Detroit, Milwaukee, Chicago, buffalo, Minneapolis, Madison, Columbus, and everywhere in between already have similar weather. Sure, some places get more snow than others. Cleveland does not get the most. Ever. The entire states of Minnesota and Wisconsin and quite a bit of Michigan are consistently colder. We are literally talking about over 100 million people that experience the same general weather.

You guys think you are making revelations or something, but you're not. Weather is so banal.
No one is saying that the northern US doesn't have similar weather.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:07 AM
 
11,610 posts, read 10,316,322 times
Reputation: 7213
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmodder View Post
Is this thread still going? Was NEO winter miserable as Boston? No but it was still a miserable experience in the eyes of many. The main take away for anyone not familiar with NEO winters is such:

#1. Cleveland winters are unfavorable by majority opinion.
#2. Since this majority opinion puts a negative picture on life in NEO during winter, NEO boosters will make every effort to down play this majority opinion. They will even go so far as to try and discredit the those who have lived in Cleveland and have experienced it first hand. No one is fooled.

Again, it took a friend of mine 6 hours to drive from Cleveland to Akron on Thanksgiving day because of NEO weather and the roads being so bad.
What is patently and obviously true is that many of the winter gripers on this forum are individuals who have moved from Greater Cleveland and apparently are individuals who didn't consider worthwhile the many opportunities in our region to avail themselves of winter recreational activities. It's also true that these winter gripers feel it necessary to accuse those of us who consciously enjoy four seasons of weather of being dishonest, while, as documented in this thread, posting patently misleading materials. Sad.

Taking six hours to drive from Cleveland to Akron is so extraordinary, that it's hard to believe that there wasn't any discussion in the media. I can't find a thing about it. To imply that this is representative of winter life in Cleveland is offensively inaccurate. Traffic slows down during storms, especially heavy ones, and commute times might as much as double, but such storms are infrequent, and are cleared within hours, especially on major routes. Where, I live, they even infuriatingly (waste of money, plow drivers trying to earn overtime?) at times plow dry neighborhood streets. Some neighborhoods of Cleveland proper do have snow removal problems after heavy storms.

Every several years, there may be a major storm that brings general travel to a standstill. It's been at least a few years since I remember such a storm. Sometimes a relatively small area will get stuck under a heavy snow band. These create problems, just as would a flooded road. Road crews usually are good about dealing with snow bands, especially on interstates, but it's tough to keep up with extremely heavy snows until the snowfall has ended, at which time the snow typically is cleared rapidly. It also takes some time for road chemicals, including salt, to do their magic. Note that many interstates in Greater Cleveland have temperature and moisture sensors and dispatch of snow plows is relatively sophisticated.

If there are major accidents on interstates, whether in winter or summer, interstates will be closed.

Here's what I found for Thanksgiving 2014. 1) No post-Thanksgiving article about bad weather conditions, only a prior day forecast of meek weather. 2) A National Weather Service report that said that Cleveland experienced the second heaviest Thanksgiving snowfall since 1900.

http://www.cleveland.com/weather/blo...for_pre-t.html

Consider with weather forecasting today, it's unbelievable that Thanksgiving weather would have been as monstrous as alluded to by Maxmodder given the forecast in the above article.

Maxmodder has repeatedly mentioned this extraordinary Thanksgiving travel delay on I-77 (my memory is that in the first telling, it was Maxmodder, not a "friend," who experienced the travel delay), always positing it without qualification as representative of winter life in Greater Cleveland. Anybody who has lived in Greater Cleveland would find a even a two-hour trip between Cleveland and Akron to be so exceptional as to be extraordinary. Due to the combination of an accident and road construction, it once took me 90 minutes in the summer to get to the Akron Canton airport, south of Akron. I still remember it well, which tells you how benign travel is in Greater Cleveland compared to many metropolitan areas, such as southern California.

What really perplexed me about Maxmodder's Thanksgiving tale, first told months ago, is that I live in the eastern snowbelt, and I had no memory of any notable weather on Thanksgiving, certainly not a major storm.

So what's the explanation? Accuweather.com, like the National Weather Service, reports that Cleveland had seven inches of snow on Thanksgiving. Note that the low was 31 degrees and the high was 35 degrees. Note the prior days' temperatures, especially the high on Monday, Nov. 24, of 65 degrees. The lowest temperature through Nov. 27, inclusive of the prior five days, was 31 degrees on Thanksgiving.

Cleveland November Weather 2014 - AccuWeather Forecast for OH 44113

Any Clevelander looking at that temperature history would know that ground temperatures were very high and that any snowfall would melt quickly. My memory is that official snowfall methodology measures snow in a box exposed to air temperatures, not accumulated snowfall on the ground after a certain period.

So if the National Weather Service reported 7 inches of snowfall on Thanksgiving, why do I have no memory of it, and why wasn't it reported in the Cleveland media? Weren't there even any flight delays at the airport?

Examine closely the NWS report about the Thanksgiving snowfall.

November 27-28, 2014

Note that the NWS reported 7 inches of snowfall prior to 7 a.m., but only one inch of accumulation. The NWS official readings for Cleveland are all from Cleveland Hopkins airport. What likely happened is that snow largely melted as soon as it hit the warm ground. Given the extremely robust snow treatment/removal capabilities at Hopkins, there's no way that this snowfall would have affected operations, with temperatures hovering above freezing.

Likely, any snow that fell where I live melted before I ever saw it. Areas closer to Lake Erie benefit more from the lake heater effect in November and typically have higher temperatures than at Hopkins.

Note that for other locations in Greater Cleveland, with the exception of Hiram and Beachwood, no overnight Thanksgiving Day snowfall totals reported for other locations in Greater Cleveland were more than two inches. Two inches doesn't even elicit much more than a note in Greater Cleveland, especially when it's melting as soon as it falls or soon after.

Given that the snow accumulation at Hopkins at 7 a.m. was only one inch, I'm not certain whether Hopkins just technically better measured the snowfall, or if it sat under a snow band. Note that seven inches of snow is less than one inch of rain. Isn't it great that Greater Cleveland regularly gets rains of half an inch or more (I haven't had to use lawn sprinklers for all of this summer, although I was thinking about it before last night's welcome rain)?

Now I don't know what happened to Maxmodder or his "friend" on Thanksgiving. IF, and I emphasize "IF," such a trip took six hours it was extremely extraordinary. Anybody who knew Cleveland would know that this is so true as to brand any attempt to attribute a six-hour trip between Cleveland and Akron to merely the weather and implied inept road crews as likely rubbish.

Does Cleveland have substantial cloud cover in the winter? Yes.

Do we have cold weather? Yes, but it's much more limited than in the past, with snowfalls in November and December for the past decade being relatively rare compared to prior decades. Global warming is taking place, and its effects are well documented in the upper Midwest, with even forest tree species migrating north. Lake Erie ice fishing now uses air boats similar to those in the Florida Everglades to deal with slushy conditions, never considered before the last decade.

Outside of some Cleveland city neighborhoods and perhaps some other locations, is snow/ice treatment and removal robust and very good in northeast Ohio? Yes. Politicians who don't offer good winter road treatments risk their political careers.

Do we get to experience winter recreational and winter photography opportunities? Yes, but only in the last two years in the past decade have we seen Lake Erie sufficiently frozen for safe walks near shore.

Do Clevelanders talk about the weather, especially in winter? Yes. We have lots of weather year-round. Friends of mine in southern CA are amused by my fixation with Accuweather radar, which I examine well over a thousand times in the course of a year, as it can tell me when to do chores, such as when a snow storm has ended and it's time to clean up.

Do Clevelanders, at least in my neck of the woods, comment on the beauty of our snowfalls? Yes. We also are bummed out that we rarely any more have white Christmases.

Much of the country has adverse weather conditions. So I attribute the ex-Clevelanders who lead the we.ather griping rant as suffering from something more than an aversion to winter weather.

And there's some explanation for Maxmodder's reported 2014 6-hour Thanksgiving trip between Cleveland and Akron than just the weather, if the story is even accurate.

Last edited by WRnative; 07-30-2015 at 06:55 AM..
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Cleveland and Columbus OH
11,046 posts, read 12,341,171 times
Reputation: 10370
Quote:
Originally Posted by deskjockey View Post
You live in Boston and that city is infinitely better than Cleveland. Comparing Cleveland to all cities you note above (except Buffalo and perhaps Detroit) is like comparing apples to oranges.
Ok, feel free to come move here and have the privilege of paying $2300/month to rent an apartment with a roommate that you never have time to enjoy because you work 12 hours a day. Also feel free to enjoy the traffic jams, the subway breakdowns (for an entire month in winter- people waited two hours every day just to get on a train). Not into sun? Great! Sunset in winter in Boston is 4 pm! Now we are barely getting sun past 8 in the middle of summer.

Like cultural institutions but feel they're a little too affordable in Cleveland? Boston is for you! Wish you were constantly surrounded by undergrads walking and texting and generally not caring about anyone else? Again, Boston is the answer! Tired of happy hours or otherwise adults enjoying their few hours of free time? Discounting drinks has been Illegal in Boston since 1984! Our nanny state has you covered, not to worry. Wanna have your rent or property taxes increase every year with no end in sight? Think Cleveland sport fans aren't obnoxious enough? Are you craving the critique of our nation's condescending, self appointed socially enlightened idle class?

BOSTON!

I actually do like Boston, and I've lived here three years, but you have obviously no idea what you're talking about. None. Whatsoever. People in Boston are sick of what happens here. There are many reasons to like Cleveland and even prefer it over Boston.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:11 AM
 
1,046 posts, read 1,527,613 times
Reputation: 488
Quote:
Originally Posted by burritoKURUMA View Post
Then why do you live in Cleveland?

You should leave and move in with maxmodder ... I think you two would make a cute couple.
Maybe he has to live in Cleveland for the time being because he has to be close to family. Just because he lives there doesn't mean that he enjoys it.
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Old 07-30-2015, 06:15 AM
 
Location: cleveland
50 posts, read 62,851 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmodder View Post
Maybe he has to live in Cleveland for the time being because he has to be close to family. Just because he lives there doesn't mean that he enjoys it.
And just because he doesn't enjoy it, doesn't mean everyone else needs to hear about it.

That's why you two would be perfect! Sipping coffee in the morning, reading the newspaper, talking about how terrible Cleveland it ... seriously, does it get any better than that?
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