Cleveland "rebirth" is somewhat true but generally overblown, and certainly not new (Columbus: rental, loft)

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by teacherdad

Online access to shopping is removing retail more than it's a CLE deal. IMO.

My answer to that? Downtown Chicago.

I, for one, won't buy clothing I can't try on first. Well, shirts maybe, and underwear and socks, but definitely not pants or shoes. I don't buy clothes online.

And it pains me that I can't shop for decent clothes in the city of Cleveland, nor can I in Lakewood where I currently live. I have to go further out into suburbia to find anything... and going carless as I do, it's a pain.

In Chicago, at least I could walk to stores like The Gap, Marshall's, TJ Maxx, and DSW Shoe Warehouse. And all the department stores on the Mag Mile were only a 10-minute express bus ride away. Nearly everything was at my fingertips. I miss that.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by WRnative

It sounds like you're describing Detroit, not Cleveland.

Same same? Not. Not. Not.

I haven't been recently, but I've been hearing and reading that even downtown Detroit has been experiencing redevelopment and making a comeback... regardless of what's going on in the rest of the city.

[Kamms]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

Downtown shopping can be kinda overrated too. Downtown Crossing in Boston attracts a lot of druggies and is incredibly seedy at night. Most people have just realized that Amazon is way easier, more convenient, and usually cheaper than going to a mall.

Understood; however, some decent retail should be expected. Downtown Cleveland's retail scene started its decline in the '60s and has been pretty much altogether dead for 15 years or so. Bars, restaurants and apartment conversions are great but downtown needs new jobs, commercial and retail development as well.

[franky44022]

from the Wall Street Journal:

Influx of Younger, Wealthier Residents Transforms U.S. Cities - WSJ

Rust-Belt Cities Lure Young Professionals

[costello_musicman]

Originally Posted by franky44022

from the Wall Street Journal:

Influx of Younger, Wealthier Residents Transforms U.S. Cities - WSJ

Rust-Belt Cities Lure Young Professionals

Awesome. Thanks!

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by franky44022

from the Wall Street Journal:

Influx of Younger, Wealthier Residents Transforms U.S. Cities - WSJ

Rust-Belt Cities Lure Young Professionals

Thanks for posting. Unfortunately, C-D won't allow me to give you more rep, but I hope others do so!

Are these numbers from the article for Ohio City accurate, especially the $93,000 median income?

<<In the Ohio City neighborhood, the median income skyrocketed to $93,000 from $23,000 since 2006, according to Ohio City Inc., a local nonprofit development group. Median home values shot up 800% since 2000 to $270,000, according to Ohio City Inc. Median rental prices in downtown Cleveland as a whole jumped 47% from late 2010 to late 2015, according to the Center for Population Dynamics at Cleveland State University.>>

[kpl1228]

Originally Posted by WRnative

Thanks for posting. Unfortunately, C-D won't allow me to give you more rep, but I hope others do so!

Are these numbers from the article for Ohio City accurate, especially the $93,000 median income?

<<In the Ohio City neighborhood, the median income skyrocketed to $93,000 from $23,000 since 2006, according to Ohio City Inc., a local nonprofit development group. Median home values shot up 800% since 2000 to $270,000, according to Ohio City Inc. Median rental prices in downtown Cleveland as a whole jumped 47% from late 2010 to late 2015, according to the Center for Population Dynamics at Cleveland State University.>>

Ohio City is NOT all of Cleveland. It's also probably the original urban pioneer neighborhood in Cleveland and has been since the early 80s. This is not a NEW rising from the ashes community. Ohio City is terrific but it has been on a hard progressive rebound for at least 30 years now.
Same with Playhouse Square, as you quoted earlier. Especially since the mid nineties.
Again, this rebirth is not new, which was my main point. This is not a honeymoon. And if it is, we've had a few honeymoons since 1970.
Agreed, I love the new developments. But it's this era's version of prior city tweakings.

[bjimmy24]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

Ohio City is NOT all of Cleveland. It's also probably the original urban pioneer neighborhood in Cleveland and has been since the early 80s. This is not a NEW rising from the ashes community. Ohio City is terrific but it has been on a hard progressive rebound for at least 30 years now.
Same with Playhouse Square, as you quoted earlier. Especially since the mid nineties.
Again, this rebirth is not new, which was my main point. This is not a honeymoon. And if it is, we've had a few honeymoons since 1970.
Agreed, I love the new developments. But it's this era's version of prior city tweakings.

I'm sorry but no, it has not been rebounding for thirty years. Even ten years ago it wasn't all very nice. Revisionist history.

[WRnative]

Originally Posted by kpl1228

Ohio City is NOT all of Cleveland.

I never said Ohio City is all of Cleveland. How ridiculous to even attribute that thought to me.

Originally Posted by kpl1228

It's also probably the original urban pioneer neighborhood in Cleveland and has been since the early 80s. This is not a NEW rising from the ashes community. Ohio City is terrific but it has been on a hard progressive rebound for at least 30 years now.

The Wall St. Journal article had this incredible claim:

<<In the Ohio City neighborhood, the median income skyrocketed to $93,000 from $23,000 since 2006, according to Ohio City Inc., a local nonprofit development group. Median home values shot up 800% since 2000 to $270,000, according to Ohio City Inc.>>

I find the numbers suspect, but a 400 percent increase in median income in a decade is not "a hard progressive rebound," nor is an 800 percent increase in the median home value in the last 16 years.

https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/USSTHPI

If those Wall St. Journal statistics are accurate, Ohio City has gained a remarkable amount of traction never before seen in its gentrification process.

Originally Posted by kpl1228

Same with Playhouse Square, as you quoted earlier. Especially since the mid nineties.
Again, this rebirth is not new, which was my main point.

Again, it's not the "same" at PlayhouseSquare. The remarkable renovations of the Hanna and Allen Theatres, as well as the addition of a couple new theaters; the extremely successful move of the Cleveland Play House to PlayhouseSquare (a transformational and historic Cleveland theater consolidation); the opening of the Healthline and the addition of the free downtown bus trolleys on Euclid Ave.; the massive real estate developments and restaurant additions; the addition of the world's largest outdoor candelabra and gateway arches; and the expansion of the Broadway Series to three weeks, all have taken place in the last 10 years. The restoration of the Ohio Theatre lobby and the renovation of the State Theatre lobby were finished in 2016.

Again, as explained in my previous posts in this thread, my opinion is that your argument is daft at least to some significant degree. It is not same, same.

[andrew61]

Originally Posted by bjimmy24

I'm sorry but no, it [Ohio City] has not been rebounding for thirty years. Even ten years ago it wasn't all very nice. Revisionist history.

I grew up in that neighborhood, so I think I know something about it.

Ohio City's revitalization and gentrification started as far back as 1968 -- although at first it was confined to just a couple blocks around Jay Avenue.

It spread from there. By the early 1980s, there were house tours every year showcasing Ohio City homes that had been renovated and/or restored.

A friend and coworker of mine started investing in "slum" rental properties in the neighborhood around that time, maybe a half dozen or so, and one by one started fixing them up. Back then he was able to buy houses for a mere $10,000 apiece. He was criticized by some in the neighborhood because he "rehabbed" properties but did not restore them to their original Victorian detail.

Granted, the revitalization took place little by little, in fits and starts, and crime in the area was still high. Burglaries of properties owned and occupied by the yuppie newcomers, in particular, were rampant. Some couldn't cope with it, and fled. The poverty rate in the neighborhood was still high as well.

But the rebirth of the neighborhood was already going on back then, and kept spreading outward. It was just at an earlier stage than it is today. The long, slow, patchy process used to frustrate me back then, especially when I compared and contrasted it to, say, Columbus' German Village, which seemed to take off much more quickly. But progress was being made, little by little.